Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: catshome on September 27, 2019, 08:06:05 AM
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Spotted this whilst looking for my cobalt carafes. It caught my eye because I have the same in ruby, but haven't started trying to identify it yet. I haven't come across the term "low wash bowl", and it certainly wouldn't be the first thought looking at mine as the bowl is very shallow. I was thinking centrepiece bowl. Is this peculiar to the USA?
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LARGE-17-Inch-Hand-Blown-Cobalt-Glass-Low-Wash-Bowl-/163691369491?hash=item261cc41413%3Ag%3AQ2oAAOSwKUJc3GBP&nma=true&si=Scn2wZr2CflnJT9mjg%252F48fpq0mo%253D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
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Not a term I have heard before. However from Murano I believe:
https://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,58449.0.html
John
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Thanks John......that has an unexpected bonus of solving another mystery piece. Will check the ribs for any signature and add a picture if I find one. They're really impressive pieces imho.
Added: couldn't resist a quick trawl......these seem to be being attributed to Pauly&C.....and I think I need to bring it in from the garage where I left it after unpacking the box it was in!
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Yes would agree, lovely. Saw a couple of vases with bases that match the other day, first time I have seen that design as far as I remember, assume they are from the same source. They were also in red, quite large and with a spiral trail on the neck, no photos unfortunately.
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Brought it indoors, washed it, and went over with a magnifier but no marks at all. 41cm/16" diameter. The ones I have seen on the internet all give Pauly & C as the attribution, but no references given, and one of the four had "?Pauly".
CMOG have 28 pieces attributed to Pauly on their website, but none of these bowls. Unfortunately, I don't have any specialist Italian glass books to check.
Interesting that the only blue one I've found was the one in the listing above. Given that cardinals' hats were red, perhaps they didn't make many in blue. Surprised it didn't sell at $50, if it is a rare Pauly piece - especially as the ruby ones I found were listed at £1500 and £1250, sold at £385, and the last one was price on application.
I will continue the search.
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You wouldn't do much washing in that tiny centre. Much more likely it's for display or fruit, what the American call a console bowl
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I used to have a couple of these bowls but never got a firm attribution beyond just 'Murano'. I've seen them attributed to Venini by sellers but with no supporting evidence...
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,32868.msg177992.html#msg177992
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Steven thanks for adding that link - I missed it on my search. It led me to another thread with a posting by Ivo of a gold version of these bowls, where Ivo included the information that Venini had been suggested as a maker.
https://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,32443.0.html
I started looking for links between Venini and Pauly. Found a piece described as "A prototype vase by Venini for Pauly", but I haven't been able to find out more about any possible collaboration.
https://www.1000-objekte.ch/products/prototype-vase-by-venini-for-pauly
In 2005, Sotheby's auctioned pieces from the Pauly Collection of Murano glass, with pieces by other Venetian glass makers including Venini.
One of the lots is listed as a 73cm version of these bowls, and Is attributed to Pauly & C. C.V.M. Interestingly, no mention of cardinals hats in the description. I just got the tape measure out.....73cm/28.5" would be a huge piece.
http://www.sothebys.com/en/auctions/ecatalogue/lot.142.html/2005/the-pauly-collection-of-murano-glass-mi0257
Is this enough for an attribution to Pauly, or could it be that other Venetian companies made exactly the same style pieces? Mine has 16 ribs, as do all the ones I've found so far that could be counted from the images. The Sotheby's image appears to have 16 ribs, although it is not easy to count them on a profile picture.
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My blue iridised example had 12 ribs. The flat rim and ribbed well reminds me a little of some shapes seen in Peking glass.
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That's interesting Steven, as the finish in your piece reminded me of the one in this link - attributed to WMF, but without a reference - but this has 16 ribs, although it's a good match for size at 30.8cm compared to yours at 30.5cm.
https://scottishantiques.com/art-glass/german-austrian?product_id=8764
22" Example with 14 ribs, attributed to Barovier & Toso - again no reference for attribution
https://www.chairish.com/product/751199/barovier-toso-purple-murano-glass-platter
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I doubt the bowl at Scottish Antiques is uranium glass, bless them, occasionally their attributions for C20th glass have been a bit ropey. That has been to my great advantage a couple of times...
Forgot about this one, a fair bit smaller than many and part of a decorative group, now I would say definitely Salviati: https://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,53743.0.html
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John, what a gorgeous group of pieces (insert green-faced emoji)! So that's a 12 rib bowl with a confident Salviati attribution. Do you think the information I have posted so far, particularly the Sotheby's link, is sufficient for a Pauly & C attribution for the 16 rib pieces? If not, I'm not sure where to look next but I'm very reluctant to give up and just say "Murano". The answer must be out there somewhere.......
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Looks like that bowl went unsold so nobody agreed with their valuation, no idea if that included the attribution too. Mmm, not sure about that size, sounds like they have measured the circumference and called it diameter. Exactly the same in their following lot too, a zanfico underplate, doubt very much it is 45cm in diameter which is about right for the circumference of the typical five or six inch plate usually found.
Not convinced here of those two, my default position is sceptical especially when there is no confirmation.
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I had hoped that, as the pieces were from the Pauly & C collection, they would have been well documented by the company conservator/archivist. I might try an email to Sotheby's to ask them. If it's 73cm circumference, that's about 23cm/9" diameter.
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Just had another look at the Sotheby's auction and found another one of these pieces was also included with the Pauly & C attribution, and 16 ribs again
http://www.sothebys.com/en/auctions/ecatalogue/lot.166.html/2005/the-pauly-collection-of-murano-glass-mi0257#conditionsOfSaleModal
As the pieces came from the "historical collection" of Pauly & C C.V.M., I feel it's as reliable an attribution for the 16 rib pieces as I am likely to find.
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Hi Cat, sorry for this but I am currently wearing my "pedant's cap".
You said: As the pieces came from the "historical collection" of Pauly & C C.V.M., I feel it's as reliable an attribution for the 16 rib pieces as I am likely to find.
Is this suggesting that other similar items but with other than 16 ribs are not attributable to Pauly & Co.? Or has the point been covered previously?
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Hi Kevin. The ribs followed from John's piece, which he feels confident to attribute to Salviati - it has 12 ribs. The Sotheby's pieces attributed to Pauly, had 16 ribs. they may have made pieces with fewer ribs, and other companies may have made pieces with 16 - Ivo's aventurine version has 16 ribs and Venini has been suggested as the maker. However, I didn't find anything to support that, and I don't have any specialist Italian glass books to search further. I would be interested in your thoughts.
Many thanks
Cat
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Hi Cat,
My thoughts were ...
There has been admission of confusion within the Board about information on Pauly & Co, (See this post in a 2010 thread (https://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,34447.msg186724.html#msg186724), for example.)
And connections via mergers ( see Wiki Pauly & Co info (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pauly_%26_C._%E2%80%93_Compagnia_Venezia_Murano) ) with such as Salviati & Co., C.V.M., and Paolo Venini are not easy to follow.
Also, Unfortunately, Glass fact file a-z (Ivo Haanstra) does not include an entry for Pauly & Co. so we are left to our own searches in a complex subject.
My main concern was that we now have examples on the GMB of the same style bowl in a variety of colours, sizes and rib numbers. Sixteen ribs seems to be the most common ... but which company made them?
Bearing in mind info from previous years that "Pauly & Co. (and also C.V.M. - see this thread from 2007 (https://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,9017.msg76217.html#msg76217) ) made their own glass but not all the time" ... The matches with the known 16-rib items from the Pauly & Co. collection could suggest that all such bowls with the 16-rib structure and matching colour are therefore Pauly & Co. And therefore, a non-match means they are NOT by Pauly & Co.
[Other permutations are freely avaiilable. ;)] Such as ... Assuming it was true, where did the glass come from when Pauly & Co. were not making their own? Did they simply outsource but provide working notes from existing items / patterns?
I think I am back to where I started - time to eat. ;D
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Kevin, thank you for taking the time to give such a comprehensive reply. It's clear that there is still a question mark over these pieces, and I wonder if it might be worth contacting the glass museum in Venice to see if they can shed any light on the subject. I see there is an email address on their website, do you think it would be OK to send them a link to this thread and see if they respond?
Thanks again
Cat
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Contacting the museum in Venice could be a good idea but ...
We have a thread with complex details and several links to other threads and I think it would be too much to ask of a museum to comment on the overall topic.
It would be a better strategy if you could produce a summary query with a just a few points to ask about.
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OK, will try to pull something together that does more than just ask about my piece.
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Cenedese were also making these c.1990 - I've got a cobalt blue one with a label... somewhere in storage.
I've also an unidentified one with controlled bubbles throughout.
Both come in at around 50-60cm diameter.
The style of the pontil mark for this one would suggest, perhaps, Cappellin: https://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,32868.msg178867.html#msg178867
And I'd say there is a fair chance that Sotheby's '1960-1970' one is 1920s-30s Artistica Soffiera e Vetreria - Baroveri Seguso & Ferro: http://www.sothebys.com/en/auctions/ecatalogue/lot.166.html/2005/the-pauly-collection-of-murano-glass-mi0257# - unless they were later remade by/for Pauly/CVM.
Heireman's Seguso book doesn't cover this design, but it does cover *some* of the convoluted history of CVM and the companies it was an agent for.
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Ahh......that might be the answer on the blue bowl from eBay in my first post on this thread. I did contact the seller to make them aware of this topic on the board.
Thanks for adding to the thread, Nic. Still trying to figure out the best approach when I contact the museum - I'm thinking just ask what is known about these pieces, and see what they come back with, rather than including anything about what we've already found/discussed.
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Found another one in a box! This one is 34cm (13.5") diameter, and weighs 685g. Very hard to capture the colour.....it's very pale pink. 16 ribs to the base, wide Wrythen rim. It has a proper folded over edge that is not completely flat in some places (see picture).
Unfortunately, water/debris has built up under this folded edge - any ideas how I can clean it, as I can't get anything into the gap?
When we were discussing these pieces, I was so focused on the number of ribs that I didn't consider that there are distinct differences in the finishes on the edges. The ruby piece has more of a moulded ridge to the rim, the edge on this one is actually folded over, and John's gold one appears more of a flat, unfolded rim.
I will get on and contact the museum about these pieces in the next few weeks.
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Build up in folded edge