Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: nocross on October 03, 2019, 05:11:17 PM
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I came across a set of liqueur glasses with an "S" etch marked on the base. I have been unable to find any sign of who may have manufactured the glass and was wondering if the knowledge of many may be able to help.
Since the purchase of the liqueur glasses I've also found some sherry and wine glasses in the same pattern.
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Hello and welcome. Please add a picture of the whole piece, taken against a plain background.
First thoughts is this is likely to be a Stuart Stonier piece - made by Stuart for John Stonier. If you use the search button at the top of the board to search Stuart stonier, you will find quite a lot of information about these pieces.
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I have a Webb piece with an 'S' mark to the base, it's on the green lidded pot.
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Hi Keith - so likely do you think that the Liverpool store sold T.W. material as well as Stuart - would seem to be a not unreasonable assumption.
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Could be I suppose, hasn't this 'S' mark been on the GMB before ?
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yes, though you'd be far more up-to-date than me on this subject. I'm aware that there is the Stonier connection re Stuart, but unsure as to whether the same connection - regarding the S - applied to T.W. also :)
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Here is just one of the threads discussing the "S" mark. Bernard's comments were particularly helpful with regard to John Stonier history.
https://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,6156.0.html
Ideally, we need to see the whole piece to be able to confirm whether it is a Stuart pattern. I did also read that, rarely, an "S" mark was used which related to Stourbridge. Another member commented that "S" might relate to seconds.
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thanks for the link - I seem to recall seeing this a long time back. However, coming forward to this thread, I understood that Keith is now saying he also has the S on a piece of T.W. - the green lidded pot - so the mark is on something that isn't Stuart - or am I losing the plot? :)
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The pot is in perfect condition, no lumps, bumps or cracks so not a second, the mark is also on one of the green half pint tankards.
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Paul no plot lost as yet......the link was really for the OP. Keith's pieces just make it more interesting! I don't know whether Thomas Webb made anything for Stonier, but they were Stourbridge too, so whether that links into the other comment I read about an S mark for Stourbridge, or not, remains to be investigated. I do miss Bernard.
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but there's time yet perhaps ;) …...……………………..... unfortunately, the Board presently appears to lack the level of activity of recent years, and of previous members who perhaps valued a more academic enthusiasm, of whom Bernard was a prime example - of that there's certainly no doubt. On the other hand there were past members who were unable to find sufficient tolerance toward his brusque and arrogant attitude, and who departed the GMB for that reason. Judging by your own post back in 2006 - showing in the link you've added - you've been a member longer than me, so you must remember some of those I've mentioned.
From memory, Bernard excelled in the area of pressed glass - fortunately we have some hard working folk here who also have maintained very good work in that area, so perhaps Bernard's absence hasn't been too detrimental, but it must be admitted that his work on this particular subject was a first. :)
So how do we resolve this question about the S on T.W. wares ...……….. perhaps we now can't. The manufacturers of whom we speak, and the Liverpool Department store are no longer, and locating their archives seems difficult. Bernard obviously considered that it was common knowledge that "S" was Stonier's approved back stamp for cut glass wares from Stuart - bit unfortunate that Stonier and Stuart have the same initial letter - and logic might dictate that the same backstamp on T.W. had to mean Stonier also.
Re-reading the 2006 thread in it's entirety, doesn't appear to show clearly the source of Bernard's provenance for some of the information, though again I might have missed something - I'm not doubting the accuracy of his conclusions - but it would have helped us for future searching if a source for information was quoted. Perhaps it's a failing of human nature to assume that others know as much as we do, so why bother to over egg the amount of information we give.
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It wouldn't surprise me if Webb also supplied Stonier. Bernard was of the opinion that the S only appeared on White Star Line items but as they were a retailer with a dirty great store in Liverpool and a wholesaler, that didn't make sense (we had one of our disagreements about that)
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Thanks everyone for your help and knowledge. The wine glass i have in question with the S mark appears to be a Thomas Webb in the London cut which explains why I found identifying so difficult. excuse my lack of photographs I'm finding it difficult to get them down to size (technophobe)
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which of the re-sizing programmes do you use? The Mods. here usually offer to resize images if you send pix to them - alternatively, I'm also happy to re-size with IrfanView if you send same to me. However, your original pix at the start of this thread look to be adequate, especially as it's the S that's the more important of the two, and that picture does appear o.k.
Would agree this appears to be a T.W. pattern called 'London Clear' - found in the Replacements.com site.
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Does anyone know who holds the archives for Thomas Webb?
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I had a pic of a wine glass labelled "Thomas Webb for Stonier" on my PC for about 5 years which I deleted a few days ago thinking, nobody will ever be interested in that! I've forgotten where the source was now. I also have a photo of the inside of Stoniers from 1897, can't show here it's copyrighted, but it shows the best part of 1000 pieces of glassware in one photo so we can assume they had a fair few suppliers, Molineaux Webb of Manchester was one. Easy transport of goods from Manchester and Warrington must have meant a good few of their goods came from there, you would have thought.
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This area is not really my thing, but no-one has suggested the American company L. E. Smith Glass. The company used a single S mark at some stage: https://www.pinterest.com/pin/33143747232747101/ (https://www.pinterest.com/pin/33143747232747101/)
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I'm pretty sure LE Smith was pressed glass
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Does anyone know who holds the archives for Thomas Webb?
I seem to recall that they were held at Broadfield House Glass Museum, but I don't know where they are now with the closure of BH.