Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: LEGSY on January 07, 2020, 01:25:16 PM
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Purchased this oddity and feel it is a rare early water tumbler, Having
started to read a new book English & Irish glass Geoffrey Wills i have
been page flicking :) He mentions that un-cut tumblers are rare from the
18th century i am hoping this example maybe an English piece but have
no legitimate reasoning to suggest at present so wondered if anyone might
know? The base has been molded and shows lots of wear through an eye glass
on edges of the base. I think it maybe soda glass? Maybe this is a continental
piece but hope it is English?? Quite a large piece for my hands 5" x 4"...Thanks Dan
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unfortunately, the humble tumbler is less easy to date, accurately, than a lot of other utility designs in glass, and I'd agree with your author about moulded examples being scarce from the C18, and this is probably due to the obvious fact that, commercially in the U.K., conveyor belt press moulding didn't really take off until c. 1840s, after which they were made in profusion. Not easy to say whether this one started life here, but you may well be correct.
A useful booklet is John A. Brooks 'Glass Tumblers 1700 - 1900' - there are presently a few copies on Amazon, and it's not expensive.
Before 1800 there were a variety of shapes and surface decoration in moulded tumblers, but into the C19 there seems to be more of a standardization in appearance. Certainly early C19 tumblers are often squat and almost as wide at the mouth as they are tall.
According to Brooks, one of the first indications of moulding is the appearance of star moulding on the underside of the base - presumably these were blown into iron moulds, and the absence of a pontil scar or depression might suggest post 1840. Tapering sides is a sign of earlier pieces and such examples are more likely to have a scar under the base - tumblers become more straight-sided and taller as the century progresses, as you can see if you look in Silber & Fleming (c. 1880).
Your 'feeling that this is a rare early water tumbler' should be supported up by reference to 'hallmarks' - it may be soda glass ……. oddly Silber & Fleming show acres of tumblers, one of which is a champagne tumbler ………….. I wouldn't mind a tumbler of champagne right now - I'm running the gauntlet of a 'dry January' :'( I think the vertical lines around the base are called 'finger bottoms', a much older decorative feature than this glass I think.
Anyway that's my opinion, and I could be very wrong, so let's see what others suggest - but I don't immediately see this one being far off from C 1850 - but would love you to prove me wrong :) Unfortunately, there are few folk here who take an interest in these things, so you may struggle for decent replies, but fingers crossed.
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Wonderful reply really :)
Myself i guess because it isn't a type i have come across it sometimes is
easier to fall into the trap of something being an uncommon say early piece
and yet i have found things which i didn't expect to be early have been early
glass can be a minefield of up and downs :) I also feel with reflection the size
being so large could help with dating maybe....Thank you very much :)
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I'd suggest the dearth of interest - at least on this forum - may be the usual one ….. the lack of a good publication dedicated to such pieces.
Nothing like a good book with lots of examples, and information, to kindle the interest, though it has to be said that in the same way Georgian drinking glasses are better catered for due to perhaps the perceived investment value, so C18 tumblers have more followers than C19 pressed examples.
There is another source of information on tumblers, but it's a little out of our league probably, and this is the Delomosne & Son Loan Exhibition Catalogue issued in March 2008 for 'The British Antiques' Dealers Association 90th Anniversary Exhibition' - Rare English Tumblers 1750 - 1830.
Stuff to die for as you can imagine - but I've yet to find anything similar in a charity shop or boot fair. As I say, John A. Brooks booklet is probably as near as you're going to get to something that's useful in the ordinary everyday sense - it's definitely worth having, and helps with differentiating between mould blown and press moulded.
Not that I have any, but I like the shape of those very wide, squat tumblers from the first quarter of the C19 - there were four matching at an antiques fair, and I hesitated and when I went back they'd gaawn. :'(
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Maybe I‘m totally wrong, but I see a similarity to my blue mug 😀
https://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,68781.0.html
Monika
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;)
Have to agree Monika :) seems to fit with your base very similar indeed
you mentioned the edges of the star are sharp as in they will cut your finger
if you press against them this is exactly how my clear tumbler feels! Did you ever
get that reply back from the museum???
Thank you so much it leads me on further on the quest!!
:) :)
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Hi Monika - to save me reading all of the posts relating to your blue mug - can you remind me please what was the final opinion as to date of your becher, please ? :)
I'm no expert on blue glass Bavarian/Bohemian handled coffee cans/spa souvenirs - though I can see the obvious finger bottoms and straight sides, but whether that makes them the same age I will leave for others to decide :)
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Hello Paul
After long discussions, we ended at 1820 to 1830
Monika