Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: kerstinfroberg on January 29, 2020, 10:59:21 AM
-
I work with a small industrial heritage museum of glass technology in Sweden (Bergdala glastekniska museum - https://bergdala-glastekniska-museum.se/eng-index.html ).
We try to offer the whole website in both Swedish and English, and knowing what auto-translate can do to specialized texts we try to translate it ourselves…
I hope it is okay to ask questions of this type here. I have tried several dictionaries without luck, in some cases probably ‘cos I do not know what word I am looking for…
In Sweden all “industrial” manual glassworks (like Kosta, Bergdala… that produce long series, still manually) use moulds for the blowing, sometimes just for the beginning of the item ( see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFJM...wKbGlr4vmUMC0I (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFJM...wKbGlr4vmUMC0I) ), sometimes for the final result.
Normally, the item is turned in the mould while blowing, to obtain the best finish. This way there can never be “seams” even if the mould is two-part.
So: what the worker is doing in the video, after the bowl is out from the mould – what is that called? In one glass dictionary, I found “flaring”. Is all after-the-mould operations called “flaring”? Even the hand-making of the spout (lip?) on a pressed cream jug, for instance?
(I found lots of interesting information from Adam D on pressing, in the archive. He uses the word “melter” for the person doing the finalizing of pressed items, but that is a too specialized word for what I need here. Also it is not a verb: “this cream jug has a melted lip” - )
If the item is not round, or there are decorations (such as logos or patterns) in the mould, it obviously can’t be rotated. In Swedish there is a term for that, straight translation gives me “fixed mould blowing”. (first picture on https://bergdala-glastekniska-museum.se/eng-press-general.html (https://bergdala-glastekniska-museum.se/eng-press-general.html).)
What is the correct term for this in English? I have often seen the word “moulded” describing pictures of “fixed form”-blown items, but that implicates that ordinary (“round”) things are not blown in moulds, so it does not sound right for what I want to describe…
Of course I welcome *all* suggestions of what can be made better/more correct on *all* pages on our website!
-
Kerstin, you've raised some interesting questions so I'm going to move this from Cafe to Glass, as some folks don't visit the Cafe so will not see your request. Let's hope those who are more knowledgeable will spot your post there and respond to you.
-
Hi Kerstin - it's either my fault, or there's an error with the second link - the YouTube item - it appears not to be opening for me.
However, despite not seeing this clip, I'd suggest that 'flaring' definitely wouldn't cover work after the glass leaves the mould. The word 'melter' is also unlikely to be adequate to help people understand the final work on moulded glass - it may be thought of as relating just to the simple act of melting glass, and in fact it might not be possible, in this instance, to use a single word to describe those operations after the glass is removed from the mould.
The difficulty is in finding the simplest way to describe what you mean when speaking to people who lack expertise in glass knowledge, which I assume are the people you have in mind. As nice and convenient as it would be, it's often not possible to be that economic with terminology that we can use one word to describe perhaps multiple processes.
Expressions that might help others to suggest something for you, are ……….. final shaping - polishing - shaping and annealing - post-mould finishing - final shaping of moulded glass.
Just to say Kerstin - if I could speak Swedish as well as you can speak English, I'd be ecstatic - your English is truly amazing. :)
-
I don't know what happened, but here are a couple other videos - I hope at least one of them will survive:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oNeIadsTjQ8 (making a juice glass, shows all steps, ca 3 min)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFJMvXUU5ME (making a breakfast bowl, shows all steps, 5:20 min)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ws0xWgJT_TM (making a jug with handle, shows all steps - 2 gathers + application of handle, 7:23 min)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ss7MeVday4s (making a plate, 2:23 min)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XlKxE30ZhPQ (making a milk glass, 2:24)
Notice the modern way of "polishing" the pontil mark.
However: what are they doing (in English)? Are they "moulding", are they "flaring" - or?
I know that several words are necessary for "people who lack expertise in glass knowledge", but it would be so much better if at least some of those words are the words used by the experts (that is: by you)
At the moment I can't find a video showing the "fixed nould blowing", but the main difference is that the ("parison"??) is not/can not be turned in the mould. The not-turning will, apart from the assymetrical (ok, "not round") form, also give a different, less shiny, finish to the surface. It also can show seams from the mould.
Edited to add: all videos above are from Bergdala glassworks (https://www.bergdalahyttan.se/), behind which our museum is located. Apart from location, we have no business together.
-
thanks - I've now seen the first of your new links - 'making a juice glass' - very interesting, and these guys make a skilled job look so easy.
From reading your first post, think it's easy to underestimate the complete range of further work/processes involved after the glass is removed from the mould - in fact it might be the case that the part played by the mould is in fact quite a small part - we don't see the guy blowing, but assume he did blow to inflate the glass whilst in the mould.
Quite wrongly I'd assumed that the subject matter was more of 'put a gather into a mould, squeeze together, pull plunger, and a vase comes out the other end' - sort of thing, but obviously that's not the case. Seams can be avoided if the glass is 'turned', but where the gob isn't attached to a rod, and instead is pressed with a plunger, then the glass is static and seams do result.
Which is a way of saying that one word descriptions aren't going to be sufficient cover the various stages - at least not from what I've seen in making a juice glass - where several traditional tools are used, in addition to the mould.
Prior to use of the mould, it looks like the guy has used the 'blocking wood' (handled and made of wood with carved out hollow, and used very wet) to mould the gob into a roughly spherical shape. Then into the mould, presumably blown to size whilst turning.
After removal from the mould, the glass is shaped using what appears to be 'pucelas' (steel tool) - then possibly a 'pallet' (wooden) is being used to give a small indent (kick) in the base of the glass, and this is also probably wetted.
Assistant then uses steel pontil rod with small piece of plastic glass on end - attaches to base of juice and gaffer then breaks item free from his blowing rod. Assistant returns to glory hole to reheat the neck so flaring and shaping of mouth of juice can be made - after which blue trailing is added to mouth of juice (difficult job to get right I'd suggest). I like the economics of using blow torch to fire polish and remove signs of pontil scar - rather than more costly grinding and polishing of same.
So - you now need to find a single word, phrase or expression Kerstin that will encompass the above. ;)
I expect that others with a less flippant turn of mind will be able to provide you with more suitable explanations Kerstin - best of luck - members here are probably just about getting up now.
-
In their seminal book " American Glass " George and Helen McKearin Go into some length on "Glasmaking and Ornamentation" in chapter two. With ten sub chapters covering everything from raw materials to furnaces, tools, molds, etc.
They simply use the term "fashioning" as in "blowing and fashioning a pitcher with stem and foot".
The descriptive sentence after the piece is removed from the mold would be: "The piece is finished by the off-hand technique".
-
would agree with you cagney that 'fashioning' is a very useful 'embrace all' term - and a good word too - that would legitimately cover additional work after removal from the mould. However, the issue from Kerstin's point of view is that it tells us nothing of the nature of those additional processes, and it might be his wish to inform a reader exactly what this fashioning actually meant.
Do people here consider that "The piece is finished by the off-hand technique" - is adequate - am not sure it would mean much to me, though appreciate it implies post-mould work. ?
-
Certainly more detail can be had. In the previously mentioned book they illustrate with line drawings and text a 21 step process for making the aforementioned pitcher with stem and foot. From "securing the gather of metal" to"completed pitcher taken into tongs, the pontil rod being struck free from foot".
The term "off-hand" I believe is a glass makers term. Rough translation; "of the hand of the worker"
-
Cagney, I am thankful for the book recommendation - however, when using bookfinder.com I get *lots* of (slightly) different books - different no of pages, very different printing years, at least 3 different publishing houses...
So can I ask you to give some more specification?
Is it the same as "Two hundred years of American blown glass", whis seems to be most readily available in Europe?
(it would be annoying to get the wrong book...)
Kerstin in Sweden
-
With a few new words under my belt (thanks, Paul!), would you all bear with me when I try to describe what happens in this video?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oNeIadsTjQ8 (making a juice glass, shows all steps, ca 3 min)
I know that all of you know what is going on, but if I was to describe the steps to someone less savvy... of course I might say/write "blob" but it would be nice to be able to add "which is called a parison" and so on.
All question marks are there because I want to make sure they are correct, or to be corrected. Please, all corrections welcome! (since I became aware of the Swedish words, I have only met one English-speaking glass blower... and she had work to do while I was asking, so I tried to restrain myself)
Description of the steps in the video “Making a juice glass”
The man (assistant) is gathering (“making a gather”?) glass from the pot in the furnace.
Then he is cooling the blowpipe with a spray of water.
Next comes marvering, the rolling of the blob (“parison”?) on a warm metal plate.
(we are not shown the first small blowing, very little air that then is stopped by his thumb and let go down into the blob (“parison”?) to make a little bubble – in one dictionary I find “making a gathering bubble”)
He is then using a wet blocking wood to make it nice and round, and blows some more.
At 0:53 seconds we see the mould closing on the parison, we see the parison turn in the mould (we don’t see the guy blowing, but I assure you: he is standing above the mould blowing into the blowpipe “until done”) and at 1:09 we see the mould opening. (The closing/opening and then wetting of the mould is maneuvered by the guy blowing, with his feet on one or another switch)
(They are using a closed mould, because this glass is to be made ready in the hot shop – had it been for later cracking the mould would have had a bigger hole at the top – then there had been a “moil cap”, according to one dictionary…)
After his using of the pucelas, he then uses the (wet) pallet to make the bottom flat.
Then the gaffer comes with a pontil (assuming the gaffer is the most skilled man of the chair/”team”) , places the pontil and the glass is broken free.
After re-heating in the glory hole, the gaffer opens (“flares”?) the mouth of the (is it still a parison, here, and is he still using a pucelas?) and waits for the assistant to come with the blue glass to put around the very top.
After another re-heating he uses another kind of tool (or is that too a pucelas?) to “flare” and give the final shape to the glass, which is then broken free from the pontil.
The pontil scar is then fire-polished, and the complete glass is taken to the annealing … cupboard (?).
This glassworks is too small to use the lehr unless they are making very big items.
Thank you for reading this far, and thank you in advance for all the comments I hope for!
(Paul, you wrote "Quite wrongly I'd assumed that the subject matter was more of 'put a gather into a mould, squeeze together, pull plunger, and a vase comes out the other end' - sort of thing, but obviously that's not the case. Seams can be avoided if the glass is 'turned', but where the gob isn't attached to a rod, and instead is pressed with a plunger, then the glass is static and seams do result."
This is a different process, called pressing. By reading several threads in the archives of this forum, I learned a lot bot about pressing procedures and the words that go with them.
But they do not necessarily apply to blowing, whether "off-hand" or using moulds)
-
In your final paragraph Kerstin, you are correct, and the method I mentioned is in fact press moulding, whereas the process you are discussing is 'mould-blown'.
your use of the word 'parison/paraison' is correct for the initial blob/gob of molten glass on the end of the blowing iron, which is taken from the furnace and then rolled on a warm marver - the steel surface which helps to provide the initial rough outline of shape, on which the worker marvers the molten glass. However, in English the word is now viewed as possibly archaic, and 'gather' is of more modern usage than parison.
Believe the gaffer is the head man who sits in the chair - likely the most skilled of the workers in the glass house. As with many other instances of mis-appropriation of trade words, in English the word 'gaffer' has come to mean the person in charge in most industrial organizations, whatever they are making. In this instance he is probably the guy in the chair, rather than the guy holding the pontil rod.
Looking again at the video it does appear that the pucelas are used to flare the mouth of the vessel - the wooden pallet (wetted) looks to be used both to provide the indent on the base and to flatten/level the base of the vessel.
have to say I'm rather ignorant of how the annealing set up in a small house might function - it may simply be a space allocated in the vicinity of the furnace which provides some gentle decrease of temperature over time. Hope others will comment on this.
Otherwise you are probably now qualified to make a juice - perhaps you'll let have your first example ;)
best of luck.
-
Not sure how helpful it could be, but Corning Museum of Glass have a good dictionary of glass making terms.
There is a pc version which has an example image for many entries. A downloadable PDF version also exists.
Click here for the pc version (https://www.cmog.org/research/glass-dictionary)
Click here for the page with the pdf link (https://www.cmog.org/publication/glass-pocket-dictionary-terms-commonly-used-describe-glass-and-glassmaking-0)
There is an alphabetic header at the top of each section for "A, B, C etc."
Example entries (blue italics for quoted sections) ...
Finishing
The process of completing the forming or decoration of an object. Finishing can take the form of manipulating the object into its final shape while it is hot, of cracking off before annealing, or of cutting, enameling, grinding, or polishing.
That defintion uses the term "manipulating" which is generally accurate for activities such as forming the neck or rim of a moulded item while still hot. Good use could be made of the CMoG dictionary to find words that could be better than the generalised ones such as "finishing" or "manipulating". Being American, the dictionary will probably favor (instead of favour" :) ) US terms.
What we really need, of course, is a "Thesaurus of Glass Making Terms" ::)
-
Paul is for the most part correct in his presentation. Except that technically the gather becomes the parison after the first blow and expansion of the gather. After being removed from the mold it is no longer a parison, but a pre formed object.
In U.S.A. gaffer is used exclusively as to glassmaking.
The space in a small operation for annealing is called an annealing oven. Exactly what Paul describes.
The tool to open and shape the mouth is called a steel jack. In the old days [19th c.] it was called a wood jack, as at the ends were replaceable wooden rods. Wood was less liable to leave a mark on the glass.The link showing the making of a cream jug shows this tool more clearly.
The book "American Glass" by George S. and Helen McKearin copyright 1941, 1945 Crown publishers, New York. My copy is eleventh printing 1950. Republished in the 1990's
I believe. Some information out of date .mostly as to attribution of American glass to specific glassworks. Not to be confused with "Two Hundred Years Of American Glass".
-
Thank you Cagney!
Found a reasonably priced copy from 1945 in the UK, and ordered it!
Kevin, thank you too - but the problem with single-language dictionaries is that one has to have at least an idea where to start...
An multi-language dictionary that I often use is http://www.idverre.net/eurodico/index.php which is sometimes hopeless, but at least has lots of special words listed.
-
While waiting for the delivery of my new book (hope it will not get caught at the customs, now that UK is again a "foreign country") I have looked at the corning dictionary (https://www.cmog.org/research/glass-dictionary)
Quoting all of the "Mold" entry:
Mold
A form used for shaping and/ or decorating molten glass. Some molds (e.g., dip molds) impart a pattern to the parison, which is then withdrawn, and blown and tooled to the desired shape and size; other molds (sometimes known as full-size molds) are used to give the object its final form, with or without decoration. Dip molds consist of a single part and are usually shaped like beakers. Full-size molds usually have two or more parts and can be opened to extract the object. Nowadays, most molds are made of metal, but stone, wood, plaster, and earthenware molds were used in the past and are still occasionally employed today.
(there is a picture, which I will not even try to copy, shows an open-top mould, probably with inside decoration)
Mold blowing
Inflating a parison of hot glass in a mold. The glass is forced against the inner surfaces of the mold and assumes its shape, together with any decoration that it bears.
(this picture shows a dip mould, of the type I would call "optic")
Anyway - both these descriptions are for what I wanted to call "fixed mould blowing" when I started this thread.
Only it gives me a different problem, now, for what they are doing when they use the mould for a max-shiny surface and therefore turn the piece int the mould when blowing! And, at least in Sweden, this last is the normal way of using a mould.
Allow me to try to describe how the making of the (famous?) Vallien-designed service "Chateau" (which is nowadays manufactured in Kosta, but retaining the Orrefors label - in fact, it was never made in Orrefors...):
after the gather, and the first small blow (making the parison?) the parison id marvered.
It is then taken to a dip mould, where it is inflated a little more (but, obviously, not turned).
Next step is the final mould (open top) where thepiece is inflated to the final size *while turning*. Since this is done in an open-top mould there will be a moil (or overblow?).
The same worker has done all these steps. Now s/he hands over the pipe to the person operating the stem-drawing machine (introduced sometimes in the 1980-ies). The machine will automatically re-heat and draw the stem (which will have a small knob at the bottom).
The blow-pipe with the nearly-ready glass is now handed to the foot-maker, who holds it (the pipe and all) vertically, and, with the aid of a helper, attaches a small quantity of glass tot he bottom knob, and fashions it to a foot. S/he has a special tool for the foot.
The foot-maker then cracks off the blowpipe, and a taker-in(?) goes to the lehr.
(Unfortunately I can't find a video)
How does that sound?
- one reason I want to know this other mould-blowing term is that in Sweden it is important to distinguish between a "fixed" and a "turned" (normal?) process - and that is what I want to make tourists understand.
Kerstin in Sweden, hoping I am not boring you too much!
-
Sequence- gather, marver, parison.
The dip mould is for pattern, in this case the "chateau" pattern. I would guess flat panels. The second is for size and possibly shape. The process of expansion will soften the pattern. The turning may smooth the pattern further and also swirl or bend the pattern in a certain direction.
The term "max shiny surface" while perfectly understandable English may not be the term your searching for. Generally a mold will not give more shine to the surface. Usually a "max shiny surface" will be obtained during the fire-polishing process. An open top mold for shape may be correctly termed a turn mold. this process generally will give blown glass a smooth/even surface. I do not think there is necessarily a specific term in glassmaking lexicon for this process. He/she is simply "working" the glass in the mold.
I believe moil is a general term for any left over glass from the making of an object. This would include glass glass left on the punty after the object is cracked off. Glass that has been sheared off, as well as blow-over/over-blow. Usually this glass is re-used as cullet in the next batch. Over-blow/blow-over may be a better term for your purposes.
In my previous post I stated that the term Gaffer was used exclusively as to glassmaking in the U.S.A. This was in error. It is also used in the motion picture industry to denote the chief electrician on a movie set. Usually pertaining to lighting.
-
Yes, I do realize that "max shiny surface" is not a recognized technical term :-) - but, as we see it, that is the purpose for turning the piece in the wet mould - the steam and the turning together will acieve that. No fire-polishing is done, not for mould-blown-and-turned goods, anyway. (except for pontil scars)
In bigger places, like Kosta, there is nearly no hand-tooling (off-hand work?), so at Kosta no pontil scars these days.
I will remember over-blow - but, one more question (today, anyway...): if moil are all left-overs, even the glass from blow-pipes and pontils, then (as I understand it) it can't all be used as cullet? The ... ok, moil, from pipes and pontils will be contaminated with iron, I guess?
Thank you for helping me along! Glass English is so different from tourist English...
(should you ever have need for help in weaving English, I would be glad to help)
-
The term "max-shiny surface" is perfectly fine. Very descriptive.
Over-blow or blow-over truly conveys the exact same thing and either would be correct.
The contamination issue of cullet is a very good point. Although small amount can be dealt with by using various de-colorizing ingredients.I assume there would be some sort of quality control involved. The definition in my previous post came from the book "AN ILLUSTRATED DICTIONARY OF GLASS" by Harold Newman copyright 1977 Thames and Hudson ltd, London. This practice maybe mostly confined to what we call "bottle glass" in U.S.A. The term in England I think is "common glass".
The updating of what are essentially 19th century glassmaking terms would not surprise at all.Especially in relation to certain locales and traditions. The specifics you mention about current practices in Sweden adds a lot to my knowledge. Thank you.