Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: mitko07 on February 17, 2020, 01:20:04 AM
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Hello everybody!
Here is this great looking vase that is a total mystery for me so far. ???
it is made of vivid blue opaline glass and has satin finish and threaded decoration.
It looks like the threads were fire polished during the manufacturing.
Size is 17cm high x 13.5cm wide.
All opinions welcome!
Thanks in advance!
Best regards!
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Hi - very attractive piece of glass and intriguing form of surface design - regret I'm unable to help with id, but possibly worth suggesting that your use of the term 'threaded decoration' might give some confusion, since this description has historically been used to describe something quite different to what we see on your vase.
The use of a real thread of molten glass wound, spirally or in plain non-spiral form, around a body of glass, has been a form of decoration on glass probably since the ancient Egyptians, and was very big in the C19.
Apparently when added free-hand it's called trailing, and if done by machine it's described as threading - quite how, correctly, we should describe the surface decoration on your vase I'm unsure.
How the decoration on your glass is created I'm unsure - it might be acid cut back - applied - mould formed - or as you suggest ground and fire polished.
Does this piece show any opalescence at the edges, or might it be simply opaque glass rather than opaline?
Anyway great colour and attractive - hopefully someone here will be able to offer something more positive than these comments. :)
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Lovely colour. I agree with Paul; it's either acid cut back or even sand blasted
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I'd like to be able to feel how sharp the edges of the pattern are - that could give an indication of how well it was made and whether it was acid etched or sandblasted
I can see what looks like the remnants of a pontil scar - but also something that looks as if it might be a mould line on the base?
I have no idea of age.
Portmeiron did do some very large pieces of glass with deep etched patterns within the last 20 years or so, but the quality of the etching is not terribly good. It feels sharp and rough, but it looks good. The bit I have is a big "wastepaper basket" in white with black wiggly lines all over. Nothing like this.
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Maybe not a mould line but a trail - perhaps associated with the blob of glass covering the pontil scar - a variation on what we usually see I think.
John
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Thanks for your attention and time!
It is indeed a very nice vase. It is hard to forget once you see it.
Yes I agree it is not exactly threaded decoration but this is the closest I can think of.
If you google "Pallme threaded vase" you will see that similar and not uniforms decorations are called threaded.
Trailing is probably a proper therm if there no other.
It is sporadic and still there is some kind of pattern in it.
Having the advantage to be able to closely inspect the vase I can tell few things for certain about how it was made.
1. The trails were applied by hand to my opinion. I can see they were round when applied and later pressed to become what they look now.
The sides of the trail pattern are still rounded as are the edges.
2 I believe the vase was made in the following order. First the body of the vase is blown. The the trails were applied and then the surface matte satin finish is made somehow as some kind of chemical reaction. After this while the vase still hot it was turned in one of those (I don't know the exact name) wooden half moulds the glassblowers use to give shape to a vessel. When I said fire polished I meant this process of turning which polished just the top of the trails but not the sides. Also the surface of the polished trails have a micro trail pattern as if the vase was turned in the described above way against not perfectly smooth surface of the wooden mould.
Also there are thinner and lower sections of the trails which remained unpolished.
I can also say I am 100% certain that the decoration was not carved, acid etched, sand blasted , mould formed or The trails were not polished using abrasives.
The lines to the base looks to be the end of the trail decoration. Also I think there is no pontil mark to the bottom - the roughness in the center to my opinion is due to the excess glass of that line being spread.
I will add a close up pictures.
Excuse my not so well English !
All the best!
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Acid etched, I believe. :)
The rounded, slightly rough texture is what you get from acid treatment.
If any acid had leaked out from under the stencil, it might have been polished off, but I do not think the marks you point to, indicate polishing.
The edges being nicely rounded indicates significantly better quality than my Portmeiron!
It's what is called cameo. Just on a single colour.
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It could have been treated with acid to produce the matte finish while the vase was still hot.
I do not believe it is acid etched to produce the deep relief of the trail pattern.
The continued line on the bottom is the simplest proof of that.
I have seen cameo vases polished and unpolished- this is not the case in my opinion.
The way the bottom is finished reminds me of something that I have seen but totally different.
I was thinking of these usually attributed to Bristol of certain Bohemian white satin types.
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I don't think anybody using the sort of acid - either hydrofluoric acid or the older aqua regia (A mixture of Nitric and Hydrochloric acids, both clear, but suddenly turns bright orange when they're mixed!) which would dissolve glass, would want to put it anywhere near heat. :o ;D
Acid etching is done on cold glass, with a stencil applied to the surface which will not dissolve in the acid. The glass will stay shiney where the stencil was, and be satinated where the acid ate it away.
There is simply a bit of the base which has not been acid treated - the bit you call "end of the trail". There would have been part of the stencil there - perhaps for getting it out of the acid bath later on?
Your English is wonderful! I hope I'm not writing things that are too complicated to follow.
Cameo glass is a really difficult and complicated thing to do.
There are a few videos on youtube about it, but so fr, I'm only finding ones which show carving rather than acid etching.
There is one on the use of hydrofluoric acid. And some long ones on cameo making - but glassmaking is one of the most fascinating things in the world to watch. ;D
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Hi, if it was done with applied trails then I would think you should see some sort of mark somewhere that would show where one trail went over the top of another, such as I have shown in this Will Shakspeare perfume bottle. In this perfume bottle, the whole surface is flush and the white surface has a texture that isn’t present on the trails. You can see a line (above the bright spot) where the fat trail overlaps the thin trail and they join, but it is hard to see and photograph.
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That is an excellent illustration of flattish trailing, thanks!
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Thanks :D I only got it last Thursday and only just discovered what it was when looking at some designers Cat mentions in the cafe, doubly pleased I picked it up ;D
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That's phenomenal - really fabulous shape, colour, design. It has everything.
The colour reminds me of a colour called Bleu Lavande used in 19th century French glass and also early 19th century Bohemian glass.
this is an example of early 1800s Bleu Lavande French - so you can see the colour:
http://www.artaste.it/res/import/upload/23/66/550x550/423.jpg
The shape and the intricacy and precision of the design and technique reminds me of contemporary Japanese studio glass.
Just musing. No real idea though. But it's stunning.
m
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I'm just wondering out loud - although the design goes completely to the rim, and the neck rim might not be the right shape for this use anyway - whether this might have been designed for Lampe Berger at some point and is missing it's metal ware and wick etc.
As I say, just wondering out loud :)
one example here:
https://leverreetlecristal.files.wordpress.com/2016/11/v13.jpg
and others here:
https://www.pinterest.ca/maudeboudreault/lampes-berger/
m
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some of the best examples are here:
https://leverreetlecristal.wordpress.com/2014/01/21/lampe-berger-des-productions-realisees-par-les-plus-grands-noms-france/
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more examples here - see top right on this link for a similar shape
https://buecher.libertys.com/books/pictures/li8/lib8019b.jpg
and a link to yet more styles:
https://buecher.libertys.com/de/book/lib8019/lampes-berger-1898-2008-over-a-hundred-years-of-history-english-edition#gallery-5
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OK , well :)))
I will once again say that the trail relief is not acid etched- I have seen all kinds of etched glass and this is not the case!
The simplest proof is the trail line at the bottom - one will need to etch the whole bottom just to have this line in relief ( i. e high)
Also the edges of the trails are so uniform that could not have been done by carving or acid. The trailed decoration is either applied ( i.e laid)
or the whole vase was made in a mould. Of course I could be wrong ...
I have to take a really really closer look at it on daylight.
And yes flying free - the color is just what you said it is Bleu Lavande or Blue Lavender - thanks a lot!
It could have been Lampe Berger but it is hard to say.
Just took a look at the interior and there are what looks like calcium deposits to the walls and bottom as consistent with the use of a vase.
Also the area around the waterline is particularly dirty as of decaying plant matter etc.
Also with this color and shape I would rather say it was used as Hyacinth vase.
You can also find this flower in very similar color.
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A nice piece, but not something I recognise. The lampe Berger suggestion is interesting and seems possible given the form and dimensions.
As to the decoration, I believe that the piece was hand trailed with a viscous resist then acid dipped. the freehand trailing of the resist is what gives the random trailed design, while the uncoated parts were cut back by the acid. This also explains the marks on the base where the tails of the resist layer have dripped onto the base. As others have noted, the matte background and sides to the design are typical of acid cut designs.
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As to the decoration, I believe that the piece was hand trailed with a viscous resist then acid dipped. the freehand trailing of the resist is what gives the random trailed design, while the uncoated parts were cut back by the acid.
This I think may put an end of the discussion how it was decorated! It makes sense now!
I think you are probably right! Thanks a lot!
One thing I am still wondering if this is the case- why were these matte areas of the trailing not cut by the acid? or maybe they were exposed to the acid on later and for shorter time when the acid made its way under the viscous resist.
By the way- the vase was found in Sweden -lots of glass and makers here but also all kinds of nice foreign glass as well.
PS: absolutely right - I agree and I am convinced - the vase seems to be acid etched. I guess I was too focused on something wrong
Many thanks!
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The matte bits are where glass was removed by the acid
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It may have been used as a vase, but looking at the way the rim is finished it does look more likely it originally had a push-fit style bulb holder for a lampshade. Hyacinth vases have a distinctive shape to the top to hold the bulb - they get quite heavy with the growth of the leaves and flower and would be a bit precarious balanced on top of your piece. It is a lovely thing, gorgeous colour.