Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass Paperweights => Topic started by: SophieB on April 01, 2020, 12:15:50 AM
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Hi all,
I bought this Paul Ysart concentric in a basket a while ago.
I have not seen many of these around: one in an auction years ago and this one. Have I missed them or do they come rarely to the market?
Also, I think it was made during the Caithness period but would appreciate confirmation.
SophieB
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Hi Sophie,
Nice weight. I recall only one other myself, and that is shown in Colin Mahoney's book on PY weights, page 133, and has a rare feature of mixed coloured canes (rather than plain filigree rods) for the stave basket.
The Selman sales over the years may well have included an example or two. But of all the filigree basket designs, I think concentric millifiori patterns are the rarest.
Whether it is a Caithness version or a Harland, or even pre-Caithness, I cannot say. It would need a UV check with shortwave bulb to see if it glows blue to show it is Caithness period.
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Hi there,
Many thanks Kevin. I thought you would know.
Well I am pleased I managed to 'grab' that weight when it came my way. From what you're saying, I would have had to wait a while for another...
And yes, I remembered Colin Mahoney's example with that unique and colourful basket, a real beauty.
With regard to 'dating', I am still not set up to do UV checks... I thought the canes look 'Caithness' though.
Did PY make basket weights pre-Caithness? I thought the basket was a creation from the Caithness period - did I get this wrong?
Many thanks again and stay safe (in these troubled times).
Sophie
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Hi Kevin,
I found the example of the basket with concentric that I mentioned. It was sold in Bonhams (Edinburgh sale room) in August 2011:
https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/18906/lot/132/
I thought you may be interested in seeing it.
SophieB
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Aha! That Bonhams weight is one that I have seen before but forgotten about. I like yours more though.
The question of design / pattern of PY weights and their first production is an interesting one, and the two experiences below (with lots of words filling some "Virus Avoidance Time") might be usueful to bear in mind.
It was thought by "everybody" that a latticnio / lace ground in PY weights was a feature started at the Harland works. And I accepted that, too. But then I checked the uv result for an unsigned patterned millefiori design - marketed as "Mili Fiori" in the Harland leaflets and shown as ref PY3007 (https://www.ysartglass.com/PaulYsart/PYP3001.htm) in the YsartGlass web pages. The uv result was BLUE under shortwave = Caithness period! I still have the weight. I then changed my mind about strict divisions of pattern across the three main PY periods! (Or do I have the one and only "trial weight" for a pattern that was made just before PY's move to the Harland works?)
As for the stave basket design, like other folk, I also thought they started in the Caithness years. And then I picked one up (it has a left-facing 2D fish) which had a Monart label on the base and which also showed signs of a small, projecting round pontil scar beneath the label. That type of pontil scar is well known for 1950s / early 1960s Monart years.
However, the dome of what I call "a basket of fish weight" showed a distinct yellow cast in daylight which seemed different from the yellowed look of some Monart weights. Eventually I matched the yellow cast of the "basket weight" to other items clearly from the Harland years - and the UV results also confirmed this. So my thoughts of a pre-Caithness "basket weight" were put to one side in favour of a Caithness period item with a falsly applied Monart label. ::)
However the two experiences made me choose to keep an open mind about some of the accepted datings. And let's not forget the recent research that has proven the innacuracy of the long-standing "1963" as Paul Ysart's start date at Caithness Glass.
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Hi Kevin,
Many thanks for a great explanation. Like you I like the question of pattern/design of PY weights... I am well in touch with my nerdy side... ;D
Don't you hate it when labels go walk about and end up on the wrong weight!!! It is hard enough without this complication...
Anyway I hear your caution but I will continue to hold that PY created the stave basket design during his time at Caithness (until proven otherwise). I cannot loose all my PY reference points; where would this leave me!? ???
Thanks again Kevin for all this knowledge. I am pleased it also helped make social distancing more enjoyable for both of us (at the very least).
Sophie