Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: Terry on April 01, 2020, 07:10:54 AM
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Hi folks, I have been attributing this basket to Salviati. Would anyone care to offer an opinion?
Kind regards,
Terry
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In terms of style I would have said English or Bohemian. Nothing quite like that in any of my books on Salviati - those pinched feet just don't seem to fit.
John
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Hi Terry, it might be worth looking at Chalet glass, Canada.
https://www.collectorsweekly.com/stories/230656-angelo-rossi-cranberry-chalet-glass-brid
Mike.
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Thanks John and Mike. The feet were always a worry. Yes I agree that Chalet is most likely.
Kind regards,
Terry
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Chalet? Without some sort of evidence I would look elsewhere - an unsubstantiated claim on Collectors Weekly does not fit the bill for me. Chalet may have produced similar for a short period of time but the vast majority of their production was quite different.
http://www.antique67.com/articles.php?article=79
The odds against Chalet are massive given their short production run of this type of material compared to other makers in several countries over a much longer time span.
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Thanks John. You raise a valid point. There are many eBay sellers that advertise these baskets as being Salviati or "Salviati style", and clearly also "Chalet". They appear to be all by the same manufacturer so it would be a service to all glass collectors if we could trace down their origin. Can anyone out there help further? I have emailed Salviati, but so far, understandably, without reply.
Kind regards,
Terry
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Cranberry glass has been popular for a long time with many producers, logically many makers would have liked to supply any large market. Another complication is identifying individual makers during the Victorian era, many no longer exist and have been forgotten, with the makers we do have some knowledge of that rarely includes good documentation or catalogues. Another twist is that producers today still make wares that can be very similar, a couple of examples are Horncastle Glass who still make fabulous epergnes and Exmoor Glass producing in cranberry:
http://exmoorglass.co.uk/shop/page/4/
Given these limitations often the best we can do is say it looks English or probably Bohemian. Many people when selling want the certainty of a name, especially if it adds status. Saying all that your basket has some distinctive features that may or may not help. The prunts (they look like berry prunts) are one, at various times that decorative feature has been used in this form in Italy, England and Bohemia. Your basket looks like it has some gold leaf and the exaggerated pinched waist and all the decoration point to a quality bit of production. The style of the pinched feet might be the best pointer, I often think Victorian and Bohemian when I see similar but would not rule out England as the country of origin - someone with a better knowledge of Victorian glass might be able to comment on that.
I think Salviati is a highly unlikely, just not their style. It is so easy to allow wishful thinking to sway yourself in these searches!
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I thought it might be from the Chalet Ribbed Heritage Glass range. I think the crimped feet are also a notable feature of many pieces of Chalet glass and don’t seem that uncommon, even in labeled examples. The one on this thread in a different colour is marked on one of the crimped feet although it seems labels were more common: https://www.glassmessages.com/index.php?topic=47522.0. I don’t know that a claim to be Chalet Glass would add much status, maybe in Canada.
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There is a Chalet group on Facebook you could ask
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Thanks everyone for your comments. Some further photos attached. The pontil has been snapped off and still quite sharp. The prunts look like raspberries to my untrained eye. The leaves have been rather crudely snipped (see photo). The height is 23 cm and the width 19 cm. The feet only have longitudinal grooves, not crosshatched.
Does anyone have an email address for a member of the Facebook group (am not a fan of social media)?
Kind regards,
Terry
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The gold leaf has been bugging me, the selective use on the foot rim and handle decoration is similar in these items:
https://www.carters.com.au/index.cfm/item/866730-vintage-murano-red-glass-basket-decorated-with-leaves-and-grapes/
Maybe Italy after all...
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I’m not disagreeing, but I have noticed when trying to identify an item of mine, that on a similar price guide site (but not Carter’s) the photos were taken from an eBay sale and the description para phrased. If you look in the ‘about us’ section of the Carter’s site in the link, it says “All antiques and collectables in this database include a professionally photographed image, and have been sourced from actual auction sales in Australia and New Zealand.”
Does that mean that the attribution and description has just been lifted off a real world auction catalogue? If so, they’re not always the most accurate sources are they? Not that it isn’t what they say, just I’m now a bit cautious with this type of site for an attribution.
Ps. I don’t do Facebook either Terry, so can’t help. Hopefully you’ll let us know if you get a reply from them. :)
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Thanks John and Mike for your considered comments. John's link shows a basket which, from the one photo, seems to be a dead-ringer for my basket (except maybe for colour). However, as Mike points out, the description just says "Murano" and may be just a copy of the original seller's hopeful description. As mentioned, many similar ones on eBay just say "Murano, Salviati or Salviati Style". Will let you know if I get anywhere with my enquiries. Will keep trying.
Kind regards,
Terry
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Yes those sites siphon up information from the likes of ebay along with bricks and mortar auction houses, attributions would need to be verified with trustworthy material from elsewhere whether in print or maybe a trusted online source like Loetz.com. They buy the data I imagine. They contain an archive of images which can be useful, in the case of the red basket 'Murano' should probably read Empoli - this has been discussed elsewhere here on the forum.
I think there is a distinct difference in quality between the red basket and Terry's which looks much more precisely made, however they do appear to share an overall design. The similarities do not necessarily imply a shared maker but maybe a cross fertilisation of ideas. I think that last phrase shows I have too much time on my hands!
John
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Thanks John. Just to make sure we are talking about the same basket; the basket in your link is different to the basket you showed in your message. There does seem to a difference in quality between the two. Mine looks more like the one in the link.
Kind regards,
Terry
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Interesting to note that Dorigato, Attilia (2003). Murano. Island of Glass, page 149 shows photos of Murano baskets from the 18th century, exhibited in the Murano Glass Museum, with the identical pressed feet and similar rigaree, presumably attributed to Briati.
Suggests to me that maybe someone later on copied such easy to reproduce features in similar baskets, maybe in the late 19th century when the reproduction of old designs seemed to be in demand?
Any thoughts?
Terry
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That process of revisiting old designs is typical, as I understand it glassmakers on Murano learning their craft have to reproduce the traditional designs and techniques as part of their apprenticeship. If there was a market for such designs at any given time you can guarantee someone was making examples to service that demand. It can be difficult to distinguish when a particular item was made on Murano especially when any differences between items are subtle, knowledge and experience would be essential I guess.
As a general rule of thumb if an item from Murano contains tiny specks of ash then it is likely to be earlier than the 1950s or 60s when a new flue design began to be introduced that stopped ash falling into the pots of molten glass. Like all such 'rules' no doubt there will be exceptions...