Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: thewingedsphinx on April 25, 2020, 08:25:26 PM
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Hi,
After reading this thread in the link I think this is the Jobling cigarette box that’s referenced but I cannot find another example or catalogue, thanks Mike
https://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,57061.msg323381.html#msg323381
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Steven is the expert here on Jobling, though he's not commented for some while for obvious reasons of course, so in his absence, and in the meantime - and assuming he will comment in due course - I'll say yes, this is the plain version which is Jobling catalogue No. 2497, as explained by Steven in his reply to David, in the link.
The Baker & Crowe museums catalogue from 1985 shows a plain blue version like this one, and another of same outline shape and size, in pink, but with the art deco pattern as mentioned by Steven - apparently neither style of box was Registered with the BoT.
This particular shade/colour of uranium was used often by Jobling, so that's another factor which helps to indicate from that factory. I suspect quite an uncommon item - good find - it's likely that the ashtray lid was the part that suffered more than the box.
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Paul,
thanks for a quick response and all the hard work you And Steve have done loading the Jobling information. Do you know of any Jobling catalogues online?
Cheers Mike
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short answer Mike is no, and I notice that in Steven's recent GMB thread where he discusses un-Registered Jobling designs, he hasn't so far included any pix of this ashtray/cigarette box, though it may be that he has it in mind to do so when things are back to normal.
Jobling is always collectible and seems to have a good following, but outside of Baker & Crowe appears not to have inspired any stand alone books or catalogues, and although reference sources appear in a number of glass books and trade mags., these are brief entries only.
I see there's one copy only of Baker & Crowe, on Abe Books, at the moment - for fifty quid - bit steep perhaps, but like anything suppose it depends how desperate for a copy you might be, and although this booklet runs to only sixty pages, it's a valuable reference source and isn't simply a collection of coloured pix. I doubt that you'll find an equal in terms of detailed information re the factory's/chemist's data on ingredients for some of their famous inventions such as 'Opalique' and 'Jade' (uranium green) - plus there's a full list of the Registered and un-Registered Nos. and related designs, though most of that is now on the Board.
I don't think there's any doubt that yours is 'right' - just for interest, the original Jobling catalogue page for the two versions - 2497 (undecorated) and 2555 (decorated) - reads ……………...…
DECORATED ASH TRAY & CIGARETTE BOX
No. 2555
Green, Blue, Amber and Pink, satin finish .. .. .. 18/- per doz.
(Box 10/- per doz. Tray 8/- per doz.
SQUARE ASH TRAY & CIGARETTE BOX
No. 2497
Green, Blue, Amber and Pink, satin finish .. .. .. 15/ - per doz.
(Box 8/- per doz. Tray 7/- per doz.
the green being referred to is uranium green - understandably, we're not allowed to reproduce, here, pix directly from the Baker & Crowe publication.
Perhaps the Mods. might move this one to G.B. :)
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Thanks again for all that, I’ll investigate that publication.
I hope post another green vase I think maybe Jobling later as I can’t find that anywhere either
Stay safe
Cheers Mike
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I suspect the box under the ashtray is for collecting spent ash, not for keeping cigarettes in.
I'd be calling it an ashtray with a receptacle, rather than a cigarette box.
Cigarette boxes were for keeping on side tables or mantelpieces, for anybody to help themselves to a cigarette from.
Some of us are old enough to remember that. ::) ;)
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;D only speculating of course since so far no one has provided any dimensions for the box, but the length of either side looks not too dissimilar to the length of a standard fag (the smoke I mean) - Mike, please will you tell us if a cigarette does in fact fit comfortably into the box.
Just glad I'm not old enough to remember such things. ;)
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My first impression is that it was for the ash rather than a fag but weren’t fags smaller in the olden days ? Never smoked but some of these boxes do look small.
We’re ladies cigarettes like cheroots that go in a holder so they were small?
Would it have said this in the catalogue?
2nd picture shows it’s around 3.5 inches top rim and 3 and a quarter around the base.
Thanks
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Cigarettes came in all sorts of different sizes - older ones did not always have filters so were shorter, "King size" came in later.
The sorts of cigarettes I smoked (from the '70s on, around the time King size were introduced) did not fit all the old silver cigarette cases or boxes my parents and grandparents had around.
I've just measured the inside compartment of my Dad's old silver case. It would hold 6 cigarettes, 8.5 cm long.
Ashtrays with receptacles for spent ash underneath, ARE a thing. And far more common on older ashtrays than newer.
Cheroots were nasty, long, thin, rough, cigar-like things, all wrapped tobacco leaves, no paper.
I'm not so sure about holders. They were a bit before my time, but I did use a long one for my Balkan Black Sobranies when I wore elbow length kid gloves. I was a bit of a poser. :-[ ;D
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thanks ;D - I haven't either - for twenty odd years now, so forget, but the dimensions you quote sound about right for how I remember the length of an ordinary cigarette - 3.25" equates to c. 8.5 cms. - posh girls may have used a holder, but I didn't know any posh girls - either then or now. :'( Mind you, Sue sounds posh, so perhaps that counts ;). Which reminds me of part of the advert for some particular brand which ended with the words .. ".... it's the tobacco that counts".
King size were a fad/fashion - imagine how stupid we looked walking along holding a cigarette that looked half a mile long.
When I started smoking, age about 13, we bought a very small fag called Domino which came in fives in a paper pack - bit like Weights (Players), which also came in a paper pack but were standard length. The Dominos we bought on the way to the Saturday morning flicks, and became quite proficient as rubbing fingers on brick walls, before going home, to remove the yellow stain.
Age 17, at college, one of the business trips was to the Carreras factory in Basildon (Essex) - Rothmans etc., and come time to leave we were all given 200 cigarettes gratis - with built in addiction I suppose.
Could be wrong, but I'm inclined to think that the 'box' part of this contraption was intended for storing a given quantity of ciggies - not sure why you'd want to store the spent ash, but who knows - I've been wrong on many occasions. ;)
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You don't want to store the spend ash, but you don't want it flooding the ashtray itself. Full ashtrays stink, are difficult to use and look terrible.
You can either keep carrying them to the bin in the kitchen to empty them, or have a container under it, so it can just be tipped over when it starts to get full and the trips to the kitchen bin are fewer.
It's purely practical, but it does make the ashtray a more complicated and expensive item to produce.
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Apparently between the 1930s and 1950s cigarettes were about 2.75 in (70 mm) long. This is an ashtray with cigarette box http://lustrousstone.co.uk/cpg/displayimage.php?pid=534. See here for the catalogue image https://www.glas-musterbuch.de/Markhbeinn-1932.19+B6YmFja1BJRD0xOSZwcm9kdWN0SUQ9NjYzJmRldGFpbD0_.0.html
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Musterbuch says "Couvercle servier" which translates as "serving cover".
I am sure cigarettes were not kept under the ashtray, but in clean boxes (or even quite fancy things which made individual cigarettes pop up) and any receptacle fitted underneath an ashtray would be for spent ash.
It was the done thing to have cigarettes around in attractive serving contraptions, for guests.
You just wouldn't put them under a dirty ashtray.
Smoking was good for you! Just ask your doctor!
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The first bit translates to square cigarette box; the second bit translates to ashtray lid, which I take to mean is that the lid is an ashtray, not the lid to an ashtray. Older cigarettes would fit in the box just fine.
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They might fit, I just very much doubt that is what it would have been its purpose. :)
Smoking was an elegant and sophisticated thing to do.
You just wouldn't put or keep fresh ones under a dirty ashtray any more than you'd put your cocktail party vol-au-vents there.
You showed off that you had them available for everybody, in something attractive.
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I’ve just seen a picture of the catalogue and it quotes “ Cigarette box and ashtray combined.
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That's me told, then. ;D
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Sorry about that, just seen a picture in Facebook with these In the catalogue of amber, pink and blue some have more patterning and some none. No pictures in the catalogue of a green one though. Thanks Mike
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I was clinging to my own theory, based on my (very young) childhood memories of all adults smoking, which was wrong. I'm still surprised though.
Glad to have been corrected.