Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: collector on June 04, 2020, 06:20:28 PM
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Hello.....I have this handled jug which I cannot find out any info on, so please could someone point me in the right direction thank you. Firstly this is cut and not pressed and is fairly tall and slender with a pouring lip and handle. The base is collar style and the bottom is star cut. Underneath the lip has some small cut wedges. The handle is cut and the whole jug seems handmade and old. It is quite heavy and I would say old crystal? There are no identifying marks on it anywhere. The body cuts (I do not know what the pattern is called) is in a deep cut, in a diamond shape with 4 sides and then the point of the diamond is blunt with lots of cross-hatching. Any information or pointing me in the right direction would be very much appreciated. Thank you Jenny. ps I have a standard Nikon camera and every time I try to attach a file (photo) it just keeps say too large?
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Hello and welcome. :)
There is a whole load of info. about the board and how to use it, also various sets of instructions for posting images, because that will depend on what systems you use.
Have a look around here, to find what suits you. :)
https://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/board,22.0.html
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Thank you, after many attempts I now hope it is on
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hi - welcome to the GMB :) sorry, not a clue as to origin or date of your glass, other than to say it's probably C20. The V shaped cut (a mitre) is common, and when formed in lattice pattern like this it produces what are called relief diamonds - they aren't in relief literally, but that's the appearance this type of cutting creates. Your picture is too small to see clearly but from what you're saying the cross-hatching on the tops of the diamonds is usually referred to as strawberry diamonds.
Probably easier if you save pix to your own picture library on your pc, then edit and re-size - the results can then be posted directly to this Board - maximum size of the long dimension mustn't exceed 700 - as already suggested, there are lots of tips and guidance to help with posting pix.
As a total guess, I'd suggest this is a water jug - not, I don't think a claret jug - but depending on origin perhaps even for lemonade, but this slender shape is unusual - appears it wouldn't hold much water - but the pouring lip leaves us in no doubt as to the fact that we're supposed to pour something from the jug - assume this doesn't incorporate an ice lip.
I'm struggling to pigeon hole this slender shape - doesn't appear as art nouveau or deco in MHO. The chances of finding specific information on this design - without knowing the maker - is slim to say the least, unfortunately - cut glass jugs have been made for eons, and probably the majority lack a makers mark. Cut glass appears to have less devotees than most other glass collecting areas, which tends to limit replies.
Old is a rather subjective term - what is the extent, if any, of wear - and do scrutinize the body carefully - backstamps can be notoriously difficult to find.
Lastly, it won't help with an id, but folk here dislike busy backgrounds - your garden and furniture are important obviously, but not when trying to discern the ins and outs of the features of glass. Hope you won't take this as personal criticism, we all goof on occasions, but we need you to give us the maximum ability to help with deciphering the features of your glass. :)
If you can, please post another picture with a plain dark background.
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Thank you for the warm welcome and the very helpful comments. I have tried to upload another picture. It appears that when you mentioned strawberry diamonds...I did a Google search and found an article which had a photo of almost the same pitcher....I think this is an very early 1820-1880 Champagne pitcher from the American Brillant Period...many copied the pattern but most likely to be Dorflinger & Sons. What do you think now that I have given you this info....do you think it could be this? Also I noticed that the cut with the cross hatching is almost identical to the Kennedy bowl by Waterford which is Strawberry Cut Diamonds. Any info will help me and thank you for your time.
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:) Is the colour of the glass in the photos accurate?
It looks a bit yellow, and if that is the case, it will be glass rather than crystal.
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Sorry, it is just a bit grubby and I have since cleaned it and it is clear glass
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:) I'm not unfamilair with grubby, ;D it was the actual colour of the glass I was commenting on.
I can see it is clear - but it is not the icey, almost blue colour of crystal, it is more the colour of milk bottles.
Clear glass comes in a lot of subtly different colours. :)
I'm afraid I'm not a cut glass person, but Paul is. He knows a lot more than I do. :)
But I was thinking it is highly unlikely to be Waterford, if it is not crystal.
These things can be clues towards finding an origin, abd while this is a very unusual shape for a jug, jugs are notoriously difficult to tie down.
As Paul has said. :)
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thanks for the improved picture, and appears you have hit the nail on the head with the States suggestion, though whether this one is a champers or claret jug I'm not sure - I'll have a look through Jane Spillman's 'The American Cut Glass Industry - T. G. Hawkes and his Competitors", and see if there's a match. At a quick glance in the book, most of those illustrated appear to be claret jugs, though without a hinged lid, which was more common Europe, but there's no doubting that this narrow, upright, bulbous based, ornate handle style of jug carries all the hallmarks of an ABP design from the late C19. European champagne bottles from the C19 and earlier often more or less copied other general decanter shapes i.e. mostly some form of a bulbous design, though often with a pocket for crushed ice.
Second half C19 claret jugs are the only European shape that comes close to the jug showing here - slender and wider toward the base, but even then they lack the true straight sided appearance of this example.
So, I think we stay with the States - possibly ABP - and likely latter part of the C19. Another indicator of ABP, is the profusion of cutting - almost as though the guys didn't want any part of the glass surface to be smooth and free from some sort of cutting - possibly the reason for the term 'brilliant'.
Unfortunately, deep mitre cutting and strawberry diamonds have been a fairly common combination of cutting from the Victorian period until well into the C20, so the cutting pattern on its own really isn't an indication of one particular maker, and the only way to be certain of attribution is to find an identical match - in a book or catalogue …………. in the end though, you may have to live without that certainty.
Your mention of dates as being the period for ABP starts too early I'd suggest, and this particular period is considered more generally to be from the 1870s through to early C20.
The reference to 'crystal' is often a misused term - it's frequently used simply to describe clear glass, whereas it probably should be reserved for glass which has a high refractive index - sparkle - glass which has a good lead content, and described as 'lead crystal'. Flint is another term used to describe clear glass - crushed flints were used eons back instead of sand, presumably because they couldn't obtain clean sand, but the silica content was more or less the same, though no idea if the melt temperature was similar. Sand has been the source of silica for glass for a long time now, but it doesn't stop folk from using the word flint for clear glass - old habits die hard.
Off hand I don't know to what extent Waterford made jugs/decanters in this narrow/slender shape - I expect they didn't - Ireland often copied English shapes, so on that basis I'd rule out the Irish connection as being in the frame.
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regret I can't be any more positive with attribution - nothing that matches in the book. This is a not uncommon situation with cut glass, so much was made, and so much without marks, but the likelihood of this one being States made during the American Brilliant period is still about the best suggestion. Possibly more likely to have been sold as a claret jug.
With much States material from around this time, many of the big names imported blanks (for cutting in house) - either from outside the U.S.A. or from smaller houses at home, so that it's less easy to be sure of makers and provenance.
Nice piece though and an unusual find.
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Thank you all for your comments and guidance. I am going to the Library once opened, to follow the route of ABP and its a great learning experience..... :D