Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: Pinkspoons on October 03, 2020, 07:15:59 PM
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A little out of my standard comfort zone, I bought a (what looks to be) 1st qtr 20th Century pendant lamp shade with a satin finish and hand-painted random trail and spot decoration. Finely ground top rim, and three applied loops (applied after the enamel decor) for the supporting chains.
Came from Germany, but with a bunch of antique lamps that were Austrian, French, etc...
Any help gratefully received.
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Possibly related, at least in form, but I've no idea how sound their Kralik attribution is:
https://www.catawiki.com/l/39527445-kralik-glass-plant-hanger-lamp
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I'm watching this, because I'm very curious, but my guts felt it had a Kraliky feel about it. The right sort of surface texture and the spotty canes. :) But I'm a real novice at Kralik!
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Not that I can profess to know anything about Kralik, but I've not seen from them (or anyone else, for that matter) this style of decoration that has been (apparently) hand-painted. Kralik, Loetz, etc... all seem to have used applied/marvered glass threads and trails for their 'streifen und flecken' type pieces.
It's a conundrum.
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Fritz Heckert maybe? For some reason they sprung to mind. The Cypern finish (maybe supplied by Josephinenhutte?) and the colours and the stylish enamel remind me of Sütterlin.
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re my post above - this example wasn't actually what I was thinking of and what it reminded me of, but here's a lampshade example anyway:
https://www.artsy.net/artwork/ludwig-sutterlin-fritz-heckert-judgenstil-table-lamp-bohemia-germany
edited to add - I was more thinking of this:
https://www.the-saleroom.com/en-us/auction-catalogues/dr-fischer/catalogue-id-fischer10035/lot-77aa5f7a-8adb-43bd-9636-a8f900be7625#lotDetails
That said, the design also appears quite 'Poschinger-like' to me.
Clear glass jug here for comparison of dots but no trailing
https://collection.cooperhewitt.org/objects/18647601/
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Sadly there's no iridescent Cypern finish - it's just straight-up etched satin.
I did consider Poschinger, but, again, could only find applied glass for this style of decoration.
I'll have a potter about for Heckert designs tomorrow. Thanks!
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I don't know if Heckert did make a plain satin glass Nick to be honest.
And actually on close inspection that lamp I linked to appears to have the minutely crazed iridescent finish not plain like yours.
The piece I have and the ones I've seen close up have a crazed minutely crackled iridescent finish suggesting the finish has been created in a different way to that on your lamp (which is really gorgeous btw :) ).
I think if I recall correctly they are Cypern and it may have been made by Josephinenhutte for them (don't quote me on that, I'd need to look up what I found out again - info is somewhere here on the site though)
So the cypern finish looks very different on close up inspection to my Loetz Olympia satin iridescent finish pieces for example. They are completely plain with no crackle and where it looks, close up, as though the satin iridescent finish has been 'brushed' on somehow. Different again to a Murano piece I have where the satin finish looks as though it's been done by dipping in acid or something.
Maybe yours is none of those and by a completely different maker not yet identified :) It's certainly similar to the lamp shape you linked to and that's might be a decor that can be matched hopefully?
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If the chains are anything to go by modern, something about the glass looks it too.
John
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The chains are new - I added them, as it came bare and otherwise a pain in the backside to photograph.
The glass shows some signs of age, especially in the form of minor nibbles to the inner rim where it's been clonked a few times, presumably by a lightbulb suspension.
Also, it's such an awkward-to-hang archaic form of pendant lamp that barely covers a modern bulb. I can't imagine there being much of a market for a new one.
I mean, it could be... but it'd be odd.
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After looking at Heckert one thing I noticed is that where they used enamel, it's always very controlled, and where the design is more free-flowing, it's always applied glass.
Still, it's always good to spend a morning looking at very pretty glass.
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True.
However it is the one example where the use of enamels was varied and stylish ... and I think your lamp is stylish.
I think it's old :) And I think it's Bohemian.
Possibly the catalogue to look up and find is this one:
https://www.collectorsweekly.com/stories/77370-williamsons-teplitz-glass-catalogue
Not the whole cat there unfortunately. But probably relates to a similar period and eventually the maker of yours might be id'd.
I think it does look like the one you linked to and perhaps more hope of having that id'd than yours given the decor?
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Hi, are you sure it’s a lamp? The chains look to impinge quite badly on the rim which seems an odd design, why wouldn’t they have made the rim a smaller diameter so that the chains clear?
Perhaps those handles are for show and it is supposed to go in a metal stand located on the stepped rim at the bottom.
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They're based on the idea of a Mosque Lamp I always think - so originally designed to hold oil I think?
https://en.expertissim.com/ceramic-mosque-lamp-mamluk-style-12176267
The handles are definitely handles.
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better glass example of the mosque lamp shape here:
https://lifeinminutes.files.wordpress.com/2012/10/20121015_180858.jpg?w=768
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The chains, currently, do impinge on the glass a little, but that's because, at the moment, they come to a single point. I assume, originally, it was furnished with a ceiling rose, or even some kind of spacer bar / faux smut catcher, that held them apart a little wider.
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Not the whole cat there unfortunately. But probably relates to a similar period and eventually the maker of yours might be id'd.
I think it does look like the one you linked to and perhaps more hope of having that id'd than yours given the decor?
Complete catalogue here: https://archive.org/details/catalogueno15rwi00rwil/mode/2up
Perused it a few days ago, but nothing very close.
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Ok. It just seemed unnecessary to have the rim diameter so large, it looks like it’s the widest part so the chains would need to be at least vertical to clear.. You would assume a lamp might be viewed from below so why not make the rim smaller - is it a good design for a lamp? You can see on Flying Free’s second one, the rim is a much smaller diameter in proportion to where the handles are so that the suspension chains don’t interfere.
I was think of it in a stand like this one: https://www.catawiki.com/l/17588351-iridescent-green-glass-vase-on-metal-stand
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I understand. I mean, it's possible, but there's no indication that it ever had a stand (no rubbing to the sides, for example).
I even considered that it might have been a table lamp shade, one that sits loosely on a gallery, upside-down from its current orientation... but that wouldn't really explain the wear it does have.
It could also have just had a much finer chain on it originally. Mine's just a standard, somewhat wide, modern lighting chain.
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or leather/ cords
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Nick the lamp you linked to - something similar to that thick swirly design (in different colours - I've not seen it in that colourway) can sometimes be seen on items attributed to Ruckl.
I have a few pieces that I think might be Ruckl, but to be honest I'm never quite sure which bits definitely are and which aren't. It's a bit of a minefield.
Anyway link to some items from the tango exhibition here - see photo 6 which has a squat piece at the front in a swirly decor in green, yellow and orange:
https://rover.rajce.idnes.cz/Tango_sklo/493183118
edited to add - possibly some better examples here?
https://www.collectorsweekly.com/stories/222730-ruckl--lidded-dish?in=442
However there is also this vase - according to the site it's by Kralik. I think it is a similar technique -
https://www.bohemianglass.org/katalog/vaza-streifen-und-flecken-1443/detail/
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Oh, now that last one does look like it's been handpainted. That's interesting, in that it's the first one I've seen with this 'genre' of design other than mine.
But the Ruckl vases do match very closely the other shade I found.
I'll spend a bit of time hunting around tomorrow. Thanks once more!
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Elisabeth Glashütte, Wilhelm Habel
https://www.catawiki.com/l/7094537-elisabeth-glashutte-wilhelm-habel-hanging-lamp
And then there is this also but very difficult to compare technique :
http://www.artnet.com/artists/elisabeth-glasfabrik/vase-BaQpc1tuDM5zpcGKmIyU-w2
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It looks to be all applied glass. Similarly, with Rückl, I couldn't find any evidence that they made enamelled designs.
I did find a Rückl website, though, that had a Kralik sub-category that showed similar decoration to the lampshade with the Kralik attribution I posted from Catawiki.
http://www.rucklczglass.com/kralik---more-decors.html
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Yes, the problem is that Ruckl is a bit of a minefield to navigate so I try to avoid.
Craig's site (obscurities) Kralik-glass.com has some examples of Kralik based on shape id. Kralik is also a minefield in that there is very little resource available to identify it at all (political reasons).
But also, there is a bit of a re-assignment of maker going on at the moment with someone investigating Ernst Steinwald publications, so some pieces that were Kralik are now being re-identified as Steinwald based on actual advertising contemporary to the time and a catalogue from them.
The owner of this site seems to have been the first to uncover this:
https://www.bohemianglass.org/katalog/ernst-steinwald-co/vz-12-webbed/
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The Steinwald pages just solved a long-running WMF Ikora knock-off lamp base mystery of mine!
I'll have a look around the rest of the site - looks interesting. Thanks.
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I think Steinwald might have been there before WMF Ikora ? Perhaps that's where WMF got their ideas?
But yes, I have reclassified two of my pieces and am hoping for an hitherto unidentifiable lamp to be identified as Steinwald. But not there yet and there's something about the flatness of the base that means I have misgivings it will turn out to be Steinwald in the end.
I also have a gigantic vase that I have thought might be Kralik but never had confirmation. The only other one to match was signed Schneider and looked authentic, but I've never been able to confirm that.
The Ernst Steinwald stuff is an exciting piece of ongoing research.
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Probably contemporaneous - the first Ikora pieces were 1926, this Steinwald lamp's page just says 20s-40s: https://www.bohemianglass.org/katalog/vaza-vz-5-370/detail/ (mine has the same form/colours, but looks somewhat closer to Ikora in terms of craqueleur). The Steinwald ones usually turn up in Germany with Zenith fittings.
The corporate story/myth is that Ikora decoration was discovered by accident at WMF after a batch of Myra glass went wrong. But who knows?
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The Rukl site should be taken with a bucket of salt. Her attributions can be very flaky and based on no evidence
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Agree. I try to avoid.
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lovely picture of a mosque lamp with hanging cords and tassels here - page 479:
https://ia802205.us.archive.org/BookReader/BookReaderImages.php?zip=/5/items/masterpiecesofce02shin/masterpiecesofce02shin_jp2.zip&file=masterpiecesofce02shin_jp2/masterpiecesofce02shin_0499.jp2&id=masterpiecesofce02shin&scale=3&rotate=0