Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass Paperweights => Topic started by: millarart on November 15, 2020, 03:47:16 PM
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unsure of period this was made , Monart period/ Salvador/Ysart Brothers/Vasart weight ?
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side view
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Hi Gary,
Lovely weight - Great colours....
All I can say for sure is that it is not by Paul Ysart - so not Monart period.
My bet is Ysart Bros but Kevin will tell you, better than I can...
SophieB
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Thanks SophieB yeah my thoughts are salvador ysart brothers period though never seen one like this before
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Hi Gary,
This weight leaves me in a condition of uncertainty!
All but one of the canes are certainly from the Ysart Brothers or pre-War periods.
The yellow-and-brown cane is, to the best of my knowledge, from the Vasart Ltd (ie 1956 - 1964) years, but might be Strathearn period. But my mind currently insists on linking it with Jack Allen - for reasons I cannot recall.
As for the weight itself, as we know, older "Ysart canes" frequently appear in younger weights. The base of the weight is akin to finishes of many Vasart Ltd or Strathearn items.
If I had the weight in my collection, the first thing I would do is check the dome for a lead-based batch. Then I would try to remember where I have seen that distinctive yellow-and-brown cane before.
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Hi Kevin
thanks for reply, the yellow brown cane is listed on Richard mores site as being Vasart 1946 to 55 or older and shows another weight with the same canes https://strathearn.smugmug.com/StrathearnVasart-Ysart-canes/1946-to-1955-Ysart-Vasart/i-BfCt4dT/A,
also had a look for JA weights after you mentioned his name and this one came up with same cane https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/202380576990887436/
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Hi Gary and Kev
Jack Allan is known to have had a jar of old Ysart canes which occasionally
appear in Vasart and Strathearn.
The jar was given to Dave Moir when Jack left Strathearn to be head
gaffer at Perthshire. Dave said that the canes were never tried again
and he subsequently gave the jar to John Deacons
The canes eventually ended up with a cane collector in the States.
Hope this helps.
Best regards
Derek
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thanks Derek for the info on the canes etc very interesting and good to know
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I have found the item that was fixing my mind on the "Yellow-Brown" cane. I am happier that the cane is an "early Ysart" but I am still dubious about when Gary's weight was made.
More words soon. ;)
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[If any of the links I have used in this post are bad, please add a reply and I will provide Manual Instructions. This is because my PC has recently stopped working for the smugmug website. I can get in via mobile but cannot copy & paste urls between mobile and the PC.]
The weight I was puzzling over
It is a Sulphide Crown over Bright Concentric Millefiori. The "Yellow-Brown" cane alternates with an Orange-White cane in the outer row. A "JA" signature cane (for Jack Allen) is present amongst the other millefiori.
The weight is in Richard More's smugmug site in a gallery for "Experimental Sulfides":
Sulphide Crown over Bright Concentric Canes.
https://strathearn.smugmug.com/Strathearn-Paperweights/Experimental-Sulfides/i-T5jGQ3M/A
I believe that, along with the three weights Gary has shown or linked to, the “Yellow-Brown” cane of each weight is identical in original structure and colouring.
The Distinct “Yellow-Brown” Cane
This image is located in the "canes" area of Richard's site and belongs with the Blue-Ground weight that Gary has linked to earlier.
https://strathearn.smugmug.com/StrathearnVasart-Ysart-canes/1946-to-1955-Ysart-Vasart/i-b6G8mTZ/A
Close inspection often reveals “accidental differences" in cane slices such as, in this instance, the merging of two adjacent yellow rods in the outer row. The same merging of rods is seen in all of the “Yellow-Brown” canes in the Crown Sulphide. This is due to slippage of the hot glass during the making of the cane length. In the other weights the same slippage, indicates that the cane slices used in these four weights must have been from the same length of original cane.
In some cases, for the Blue-Ground weight, there are two occurrences of merged yellow rods. This probably happened during the making of the weight rather than in the pulling of the original cane. Another “accidental difference” can be seen in Gary's weight where the central cane shows little colouring around the white cog canes. This is caused by slippage of the orange (or is it pink?) coating of those white cog canes.
And on colours I have kept to the general “Yellow-Brown” description. However, close examination of each element, in each weight, shows that the “Brown” appearance is actually a shade of amber/orange and is quite bright in some images.
Comments on the eBay (Pinterest image) “Fountain” design weight
The weight was stated on eBay to be made by Jack Allen, I find that hard to believe. It is in a pattern known to have been used by Salvador Ysart. But with a top facet and no coloured or spattered ground, it raises doubt for it being by Salvador. How about Paul Ysart?
I have not, so far, seen a Paul Ysart weight like that example with all “early Ysart / Ysart Brothers” canes rather than a mix of mostly his own canes.
How about “Experimental Strathearn (1979/80)? I would be happy with that, as I know some of the “experimental” items did use “early Ysart” canes. But I would still prefer it to be checked under short wave UV to be sure it has a lead-based clear glass, and therefore ruling out Salvador or Paul's brothers, and indeed, Paul's pre-Caithness years.
Comments on the Blue Ground weight
A good example of typically “Salvador / Ysart Brothers” work (pre-1956).
It would be good to see how the base is finished but I would be surprised if it did not fit in with general “Salvador / Ysart Brothers” items.
Comments on the Crown Sulphide weight
The weight has significant features: a JA signature cane; the overall appearance; the distinctive blue/white/red cane (which I have seen in at least one other Jack Allen item), I am comfortable with this weight being made by Jack Allen and I believe it would have been made in the Vasart Ltd period (1956-1964).
Richard has placed this rare Sulphide weight in the smugmug Strathearn “Experimental Sulfides” Gallery. However, it cannot have been a Strathearn Experimental (1979/80) because Jack Allen had left Strathearn Glass in 1968 to work at the newly formed Perthshire Paperweights company.
There is evidence that the “JA” cane used in this Crown Sulphide weight was made in 1963, and that it was mainly used in the period 1963 to 1968 (i.e. last year of Vasart Ltd and up to the date of Jack Allen moving to Perthshire Paperweights).
Ref: GMB thread from 2011 - help needed - Jack Allen paperweight (https://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,43072.msg239978.html#msg239978)
Conclusion
Detailed comparison of each weight and their canes (all by photo images) has allowed me to accept that:
a) The "Yellow-Brown" cane is from the "early Ysart" period of "Salvador Ysart (1930s) to Ysart Brothers (1st period Vasart 1946 to 1956)".
b) Gary's Concentric Milleffiori weight is most likely to be from the Ysart Brothers (Vasart) period
c) Based on this latest evidence of weights linked by the “Yellow-Brown” cane, other canes I have seen and queried could also be from the “early Ysart” years.
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thanks Kevin for all your information. time and work behind it , very very interesting and great detective work on the yellow and brown cane , so Ysart Brothers it is which is great as i have taken to collecting their weights when i can,
thanks again Gary