Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: NevB on December 06, 2020, 06:23:26 PM
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I bought this as I thought it might be Whitefriars but can't find it in the catalogues or a in a similar shaped one anywhere. It is 10" tall, weighs 1.8kgs , with a ground pontil and some age wear.
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Biot possibly...?
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Hello chasdevlin, the bubbles look similar to Biot but not as random, also it doesn't have the typical rough circle pontil where it's snapped off the blowpipe, but it could be by one of the many Biot factories. The colour, handle, pontil and method of construction look typically Whitefriars but the shape isn't. I've actually just found another one for sale on Ebay, typically with no attribution :( .
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Probably wishful thinking but having seen the blue bubble glass bowl recently attributed to Stevens and Williams could this also be by them? The blue colour, bubbles and ground pontil with rings surrounding it do look very similar.
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I'm with Chasdevin, Nev. I've seen Biot jugs in this sort of colour and the bubbles are right - if slightly unusually slanted, but that could just have been the particular worker not managing to keep them straight up and down.
I've got a tall bottle I'm looking at right here, and the bubbles in the neck are twisted in the same way. The body is fine, the top of the neck is fine.
I am sure the big, round handle is right too.
The base of the bottle is very odd. There's a deep hollow, with what lookes like a heat finished pontil mark right at the bottom, a nice, neat little flat circle.
About 3/4 inch below that, there is a ring of broken glass, then it just sweeps down and up into the rounded rim it sits on. ???
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Sue, the pontil mark on a lot of Biot glass consists of a rough circle of glass with flat centre, this is because they didn't use a pontil rod but snapped the piece straight from the blow pipe. It's difficult to see but I think the bowl I mentioned has, like my jug, a ground pontil surrounded by rings. I've seen another jug exactly like mine on ebay so it seems like the bubbles were meant to look like they do. Biot bubbles tend to be more numerous and more random but I'll do a bit of research to check.
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And often with the Biot logo impressed into it. :)
The bottle I have is kind of akin to the tall Empoli genii bottles - but a bit more sophisticated and hand made, not mould blown.
The bottoms of tall bottles are often different to the other pieces made by the same company. Nearly all of the IoWSG attenuated bottles have broken pontil marks.
The base of the Biot bottle does kick right up in the centre; there's a 2" tall dome inside it.
I don't really expect to find that sort of kicked up bottom on anything else Biot. ;D
I was just trying to add another known version.
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This is a bowl I posted which I'm almost certain is Biot. It has the circle pontil set in a domed foot.
https://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,70156.0.html
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That's just like the "broken glass ring" mark I described which sits below the inner flat circle on the bottle. The kick-up in the bottle is bigger - but it's a bigger piece.
Your green bowl has very, very round bubbles - I'm more used to seeing elongated ones as well, with any round ones being a lot smaller. :)
Your blue jug has big elongated bubbles and small round ones. ;D
The only worry I have about Biot is that the jugs I have seen have had round bottoms, not tapered like yours. :)
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I've had a search around and the Biot jugs all seem to be a different shape, the most similar ones have a separate inside pocket? for ice.
I'm leaning more and more to S&W/Royal Brierley but I can't find anything to confirm this.
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I'm 99.999% positive you have Biot, Nev.
I got my big bottle out and the rubber gloves and the floor cleaner and green scrubby things and I have cleaned it so I can see inside. ;D
What you are calling the pontil mark is really not quite right, I don't think. ::)
The circle of "bitty" glass is far too big. And I strongly suspect, from the flat topped dome inside the hollow that it might have been a broken pontil mark that was subsequently put in a mould and blown again.
The bottle base flares out. The only way the huge hollow, with that ring half way up inside it and the flat top (or bottom) right in the centre, could have been done is in a mould.
So, a broken pontil scar would have stretched into the big ring we see. This would mean they had worked the thing from both ends.
I can only find one image online of the big stoppered bottle with the flared base. But it's on an auction site well-known for imaginative prices and for following you around for months if you ever click on it. So I haven't clicked on or linked to it. ;)
The image is of a collection of pale blue Biot pieces.
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Is it stable? It looks quite narrow at the base - the kind of thing that might be easily knocked over. Biot made/make lemonade and water sets and the jugs look to be very sturdy in shape.
Also to me the bubbles don't look right for Biot ? Here's a champagne bucket with a mix of bubbles, some stretched some not. They are quite 'watery' in appearance though and the bottle below shows the bubbles very well -
https://www.selency.fr/produit/F8S6Z5BP/seau-a-champagne-verrerie-biot.html
and this one is signed
https://www.lepalaisdesbricoles.com/fr/objets-vendus/3409-carafe-vase-en-verre-souffle-biot-bleu-ciel.html
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Was it the "dibby" image you saw? That was the only image I could find My bottle is very tall (45 cm without stopper) and the base is flared out, 12cm in diameter. It is not unstable. It has the Biot mark on the prunt on the front.
I think the bubbles in the champagne bucket look rather small for Biot, the other pale blue thing is small and I can't see it terribly well.
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Sue, I suppose it is wrong to call it a pontil mark as they didn't use a pontil rod but made the piece on the blow pipe then snapped it off from there leaving the ring mark. flying free, it is quite stable despite the narrow base because it's fairly weighty at about 3 1/2lbs. I agree the bubbles don't look like any Biot I've seen which are much more numerous and irregular.
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Biot items here as well . No jug in that shape though. Sue if you scroll your cursor over the blue bottle it enlarges the image part under the cursor and it means the bubbles can be seen really well on that one :)
https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/22741/lot/369/
Nev, I don't know ... the bubbles, the colour and the shape are not speaking Biot to me :) But perhaps it was part of a different kind of set or something. Also Biot do or did do, a small range of decor bubbles. They aren't all exactly the same. So there is that.
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Maybe it's my copmuter, M. I'm not seeing the bubbles well.
I have been able to study my tall bottle though. The bubbles are "en masse" around the top, but get sparser and sparser as you go down the body - hardly any in the base, just a couple of small round ones.
And the bottom has been put in a mould after whatever bit was broken off, was broken off. I can feel the ring of sparkly bits. It's all been smoothed over, but does have a few deep chips around. It's been flattened in a mould - the only way they could have achieved the flat disc under the dome.
I would think the final size of the item would have at least some effect on how the bubbles appear. ;D
The shape of Nev's jug is the only thing that does worry me. But I haven't found any more than that one image of the tall stoppered bottle I have. It could be from a discontinued range, particularly if it was unstable!
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Do you mean a bottle like this Sue?
https://www.chairish.com/product/2551899/1980s-tall-vintage-amethyst-french-biot-decanter
Here's a labelled ice bucket in blue btw:
https://www.1stdibs.com/furniture/dining-entertaining/barware/ice-bucket-blue-glass-bubbles-la-verrerie-de-biot-france-1980s/id-f_13496272/
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also photograph of all the bottles here:
https://www.annuaire-metiersdart.com/images/annuaire/1_LA-VERRERIE-DE-BIOT_2.jpg
One looks a bit 'tall and thin' (i.e. may or may not look unsteady )
I'm still not convinced about the colour or the shape or the bubbles though on the jug.
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It's like the chairish image - but those pics are taken from weird angles and the base looks too narrow.
The same bottle in the link in your second post is much more accurate, with a "bellied out" bottom.
It's not really amethyst, it's an amethysty-y pink.
I'm not worried about Nev's bubbles. I've seen enough Biot, I think, to know they are identifiable but not consistent. :)
The blue is a bit deep, but I think there are several shades of blue used. :-\
I am worried about the shape. ???
And now, I've gone and accidentally clicked on a link to "that site" which will now follow me around like a bad smell for weeks. ;D
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they didn't use a pontil rod but made the piece on the blow pipe then snapped it off from there leaving the ring mark.
If that is the case they were using the blow pipe as a pontil rod. You can't blow without leaving a hole...
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I did wonder about that Christine, I'm sure (?) I read it or saw a film somewhere.
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(As I said earlier ;) ) I'm pretty sure my big bottle has been worked from both ends.
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There is a section in this link referring to the use of the blowpipe instead of a pontil rod.
https://sha.org/bottle/pontil_scars.htm