Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: keith on January 02, 2021, 02:55:33 PM
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A little over 11 inches tall, minor stress cracks where the handle meets the body, best find of the year who ever made it ;D ;D ;D
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Nice jug :D
Is it engraved or acid etched or maybe both? Have you seen my reply at the end of this post http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,68884.40.html about Northwood’s decorations? He acid etched the outline then frosted between the outlines, either mechanically or later on with acid.
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Yes I saw that, I'm not sure how it was done, I suppose it could have been acid etched to create the frosted glass effect, great piece however it was done ;D ;D
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Yes, it looks nicely done. Would it be possible to show a closeup photo of the decoration please, maybe the area in the middle of your side view photo that includes the big leaves? Does the frosting at the bottom go right into the corner between the foot and bowl? Thanks.
Looks like the handle is attached top down, which I think is supposed to pre-date the 1870s. McConnell says the reason they started attaching the handle the other way round (bottom up) was to somehow avoid the stress fractures that were very common.
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Will try a close up tomorrow. ;D
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Do these help ?....
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Is that sand-blasted?
It's what it looks like to me. :)
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Thanks for posting the additional photos...still not entirely obvious how it was done though, is it? ;D I was hoping it was going to be the mechanically abraded version of Northwood’s technique but I should think you would see tool marks - Hajdamach says the wheel left a slightly irregular surface. Plus the outlines don’t look acid etched to me, it’s hard to tell without having a good look.
I think I agree with Sue with sandblasting, the areas not to be frosted masked with a resist. Then everything else engraved after. On the other hand, sandblasting wasn’t invented until 1870 and in America. McConnell says the bottom up type handle “...became standard practice at British works during the 1870s”. So there’s not much time for overlap if your jug with the older style handle is sandblasted (assuming it’s British and was decorated not long after manufacture etc).
There is a post here: http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,32489.0.html that has some plates with a similar surface finish where the options seemed to be sand blasting or mechanical grinding. Probably won’t help though ;D
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That does look similar, I think Sue's got the answer ;D ;D
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It's not a completely even, smooth surface. There are (tiny) pits in it. :)
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There seem to be a few pieces online with a very similar pattern that claim to be Richardson but I haven’t found any that give a reference. In the small book, Miller’s glass Antiques Checklist (Consultant:Mark West), there is a small jug and drinking glass shown on page 157 in the section on F&C Osler at The Great Exhibition 1851. The pictures are quite small but look to have the same pattern of leaves on the lower half. The jug isn’t decorated on the top half but is of very similar form although more squat. The book says “The bulrush engraving in the Neo-classical style was often used to decorate Osler wares”. Here is an example on a pair of ‘Piggins’ that are being sold by the book’s consultant, Mark West:
https://www.sellingantiques.co.uk/623397/a-pair-of-crystal-glass-piggins-osler-birmingham-c1855/
If the decoration dates to around 1851 from The Great Exhibition, then it pre-date the invention of sandblasting by almost 20 years (and also pre-dates acid frosting I think). It might be worth having a very close look at your jug’s frosting using a loupe, to see if there are any linear scratches in differently orientations, especially in the areas between leaves where the frosting has gone slightly outside the line.
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Those are very similar, the crossing of the leaves and the bullrushes, I'll get the lens out and have a look ;D
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That's lovely :)
Richardson's did some enamelled pieces around the time of the Great Exhibition iirc that had this leaf type design and it does remind me of that type of thing.
The star cut on the foot is a bit 'sparse' but otherwise I wonder if it is c.1850s? Harrach used this type of stylised 'plain but effective' leaf decoration on a tumbler which is cameo cut blue to clear (it has heads of reed mace on it as well as the leaves but is a similar type of effect in cameo overlay ) - source From Neuwelt to the Whole World Jan Mergl pp 177. That dates to c. 1854 so it seems to have been a design that was in vogue around that time.
In fact having read the description of that Harrach piece, it mentions it seems to have been designed in response to the painted motifs of water plants on glass vessels design by Richard Redgrave for Henry Cole and his 'Felix Summerly's Art Manufactures of 1847 and I think those were made by Richardson's and are the ones to which I refered above from the Great Exhibition.
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Thanks M, have been trying to find more about Osler work but this is another avenue to travel down ;D ;D
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apologies to Ekimp - I responded to page 1 and did not see your post about Osler :)
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That’s ok, no need to apologise :D Interesting that this type of grasses decoration was quite widely popular around 1850.
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mmm, there's a very interesting piece in Das Bohmische Glass Band ll page 203. It's a vase, with a splayed trumpet ish shape foot, a tall slender glass with that gets slightly wider as it goes up and has an everted rim.
It has a band of upright leaves around the centre that look the same as yours however they are upright rather than bendy. I have tried looking under a magnifying glass as I think it's possible the matt engraved section could have some straight 'engraved veins' on it rather than being all flat matt as yours is. But it's very very hard to tell because it's not a big picture and obviously a photograph.
It also has lots of engraving in bands around the rim and some slanted cut lozenges. The engraving on the lower band around the rim is the mysotis and leaves as yours although this one is created in a wavy up and down pattern around the vase
The Passau has it as start of 19th century and says South Bohemian. I can't type up all the description but there is some reference to Buquoyschen Glashutten.
Interesting.
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Keith Page 48 of British Glass 1800-1914, Charles Hajdamach. , shows two jugs. The left hand one has a very large matted flower and leaf design on it. Looks remarkably similar to the way your leaves are done, but maybe a variant in design pattern? The handle is different to yours. CH says the twisted handle on that jug was a registered Richardson design from the early 1850s.
The difference I can see is that that one has a twisted handle (much more difficult to apply?) and also the star cut base is more intricate, many more radials.
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I’m not sure the jug in British Glass is particularly similar except the decoration would be mechanically frosted, dating to early 1850s. Maybe it’s ‘inspired by’.
The differences I see (in addition to the ones mentioned by flying free), are that the foot doesn’t look applied and is possible made in one piece with the body? The rims are different shapes. The main difference I see is the one in the book has been cut rather than engraved. I’m not sure where the line lies between cutting and wheel engraving, but Kieth’s has a relatively fine outline to the frosting, whereas the one in the book looks to have quite broad cuts that have also been polished.
You can see an example of the type of decoration shown in the book on this wine glass, said to be Richardson:
https://scottishantiques.com/victorian-drinking-glasses/wine-glasses?product_id=4981
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yes, all those differences are there. It just looked to be in a similar spirit so thought it was worth checking out.
The glass is a match for the type of decorating technique. Good find.
m
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Thanks all, yes I've seen the jug in Charles's book, very nice, Richardsons or not it's one of my favourite pieces ;D ;D
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Pellatt used this technique - see large oil lamps plate 250 page 261 same book.
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Also on P.109 of Hajdamach there is a jug with what appears to be the same shape, handle and star-cut base but a different floral decoration.
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Nev, the book arrived ok and seems to be working. ;)
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Yes Ekimp, and I got it for half price because it was sold as "very good" condition but had some damage to one corner ;D ;D.
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Richardson's port glass with the leaves decoration here in the collection:
https://www.blackcountryhistory.org/collections/getrecord/DMUSE_BH950a
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The leaf decoration does look the same on that glass but they are quite vague on maker and date. The only reference to the maker seems to be “Related People: possibly Richardson or Webb”....so possibly not ;) and they date it very loosely as Victorian.
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Yes you're right - it came up under Richardson search and I was looking for something else but just noticed it (didn't read properly)
Very vague isn't it - could be anyone :o Something I'm finding a lot in searches at the moment.
m
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The wine glass is very similar, when all this virus thing is over, who knows when that'll be ! I'll have to go to the Archives and see what they have on Richardsons.
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This kind of decoration was very 'in vogue' c. 1851 Great Exhibition. I can't remember the name of the designer but someone commissioned Richardson's/ other makers I think, to produce something naturalistic. I'd need to look up the details but it was a 'thing' around this time.
So, for example, on page 183 of The Art Journal Illustrated Catalogue, they show a number of items from Rice Harris & son, Islington Glassworks Birmingham including a jug and goblet in opaque white glass decorated with enamelled reeds and gilt highlighted in a similar design:
https://www.google.co.uk/books/edition/The_Art_Journal_Illustrated_Catalogue/f0EHIyNi3uAC?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=The+art+journal+1849&printsec=frontcover
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This kind of decoration was very 'in vogue' c. 1851 Great Exhibition. I can't remember the name of the designer but someone commissioned Richardson's/ other makers I think, to produce something naturalistic. I'd need to look up the details but it was a 'thing' around this time.
So, for example, on page 183 of The Art Journal Illustrated Catalogue, they show a number of items from Rice Harris & son, Islington Glassworks Birmingham including a jug and goblet in opaque white glass decorated with enamelled reeds and gilt highlighted in a similar design:
https://www.google.co.uk/books/edition/The_Art_Journal_Illustrated_Catalogue/f0EHIyNi3uAC?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=The+art+journal+1849&printsec=frontcover
mm, I've just come across something that might link that jug and goblet set that I pointed to in the above Illustrated Catalogue of the Great Exhibition, to Bacchus rather than Rice Harris.
This is a link to a
'Catalogue of Specimens of Recent British Manufactures Received in Competition for the Society's Special Prizes
Session 1849-1850'
https://www.google.co.uk/books/edition/Catalogue_of_Specimens_of_Recent_British/nkbp-Bq5qDQC?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=english+opal+glass&printsec=frontcover
From page 12 onwards there are numerous items listed from J. F. Christie (I think this often appears as Christy Stangate in the V&A - just noting that for future search ease) but also please note item 166:
'166. Water Jug and GOBLET, cased with Enamel on Green Glass, Bulrush Pattern , manufactured and exhibited by Messrs. Bacchus and Sons.'
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That would be nice, Bacchus ;D another possibility but I think Richardsons is most likely, I think ::) ;D ;D
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Yes but it does give a time frame - perhaps 1849 then?
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Shall have to find time for more research, my other interests have been taking up my time recently ::) ;D ;D