Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: RobertM on January 09, 2021, 01:49:24 AM
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I purchased this from an antique store. It says Sabino but it does not look like the markings from other pieces. So I was wondering if anyone can provide more info. I just thought it was beautiful, so I purchased it without any regard for Sabino. Thank you in advance!
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Hi and welcome ;)
I just wonder if it might have been made by Jobling & Co. ? The pattern looks familiar.
I'm sure someone will be along with more information either way.
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You're right Anne, by chance I found there are several on Ebay attributed to Jobling, one gives the pattern No. 6000, Registered Design No. 777134. part of a batch from 29/9/1932.
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This is the one, the book looks interesting.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/A-FINE-JOBLING-ART-DECO-OPALESCENT-GLASS-BOWL-C-1930/133577424293?hash=item1f19d5bda5:g:tWEAAOSwuThfsVzx
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RobertM, does it actually say "Jobling" on the bottom of the bowl? I suppose it could be mistaken for "Sabino".
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So this must have been added? I've contacted the dealer at the antique place. We'll see if I get my money back. Thank you all for your help. It is appreciated and a lesson learned.
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The etched mark looks kind of right for modern Sabino. Moulds did get moved between companies.
I have a modern Butterfly, with a hand written mark on - somewhere.
I'm currently looking for it to check!
It was upstairs. The writing is very similar indeed, although some letters are shaped a little diffrently, and mine has France under it too. I bought it new, in Amsterdam, in the early '00s.
But I still would not rule it out. It looks too much like an official Sabino mark. Surely a fake wouldn't be that good. ???
It does not look like dremmel marks. It looks properly done.
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This is more complicated than I first thought, with Jobling and Sabino both being American owned. I think your bowl may be OK, this other post on GMB may help.
https://www.glassmessages.com/index.php?topic=61885.0
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Should I be concerned it isn't signed
"Sabino France" or "Sabino Paris"? I paid $320 USD and the antique dealer did say he'd refund me. What would you do?
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I'd guess your bowl is a more modern piece. In the link I gave, Mosquito says that modern pieces have a broader mark which looks as if it's done with an engraving tool, just like yours. I think yours is OK but obviously not worth as much as an older piece. Sorry for any confusion caused :-[.
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The mark on the bowl and on my butterfly are very similar - not written in the very fine line of a diamond pen, but something much thicker.
I can feel but not see, mould marks around the pedestal base, the edges of the wings and the front og the insect are mould seams, and are still a bit sharp; the pressing of the veins on the surface of the wings is blunt and worn.
I would suspect an old mould, and not finished off as well as old stuff would be.
I paid £80 for it. I think it was too much, even 20 years ago.
RobertM. Have a good feel all over and around edges of your bowl. See what your fingers can pick up that your eyes maybe can't. :)
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Thank you for everyone's help. Since the dealer sold this as a 1930s piece and the Jobling piece found on Ebay, I returned it. I just wasn't comfortable keeping it at the price. Thank you again.
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This looks identical to the one I was sold
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Jobling-Art-Deco-Cupped-Rim-Bowl/203190099504?_trkparms=ispr%3D1&hash=item2f4f12de30:g:RHIAAOSwloxfuNNq&amdata=enc%3AAQAFAAACcBaobrjLl8XobRIiIML1V4Imu%252Fn%252BzU5L90Z278x5ickkrmmq8hWevtuKE7%252F%252BLfVXtj5c13XlQ6Oa30R%252FnZ3WYMOohXmsAPLds1kza%252FApDIz6TsWAO8%252F1sFO2Fe52SuDtHCk7YZON0qyJkuxGObkc52A7P9WP22OwKtnAkBbuu8dUAMSLidwVsVOwA4HMOXPvXxgIg8H%252FSwpapUcuDyhSjmuPaY15KE%252FBIK2MoZMhpiLy2PFQwixeiydZuZX74gk%252FOrYm4UemHgI1YI%252F5DfJhOXzTYl6immOBcERBK5RQNO8qf89YoJULJGi2CrBtDa38mbS1xN%252BusLwepsVUlUgQPfGO%252F%252FkGJu5o00EYBAOD5nWobx%252FTVBQSL2uj4aSzdOKoIUWFbUgnQPocji4ryBfx5y51dWVJonC7ny%252B8pVwnHipco6ZZjV7Lmro1UTzwN%252BbKAkf4U1CSU1cyb3P9xKHa3yE0FNAkHXiiD%252Fr5qP3f7u9m7ghKlFG4xn0XzGgDG5M9v1BRlStDgowI059vA%252BiIJPgJAFnKUacU2kf78qP5n%252FFbRa1tWLSgoPULqCk2VoJfvrLXlmWK5CInKOzRMM3GusAeEI4i65m5%252BDA56tgm2QIR4lOjxFBrwhfUUg0IdBuLqIaWvlFsW%252Fg1U8qDyOa1%252BmySXZFE8yFdceZoiHPcx8g%252B7GuiZRgVGfG1P6VQC3PIO%252BFUdQN7%252FesWvlLODc3FxwXnmC4FPiah7zRoSDG35bECipwucOlcYdYqkhPdNCevSJkyDVYQdhET4PVL82OWhSRQtLvaAJI1u9k%252B3ywNo48SHzAO6zzyXC0I9RfYH8LqpA%253D%253D%7Ccksum%3A203190099504afc7c3170f864255bc46747a8549d20d%7Campid%3APL_CLK%7Cclp%3A2334524
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It was definitely not from the '30s. Glad to hear your seller was decent about it. :)
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Definitely a Jobling Flower Pattern bowl with a likely spurious mark. From the strong, more whitish opalescence and apparent lack of a registration number, I'd think it was quite an early example (1932-3) of Jobling production. The mark was most probably added later to deceive. However, there is some history between the companies, as Jobling apparently did approach Sabino with the intention of producing Sabino designs under license in the UK, though apparently no agreement was made as Sabino wanted too much money. Jobling did copy Sabino's Les Hirondelles pattern though for their 2606 pintray...
As Sue has said, this broad engraved Sabino signature is more common on newer pieces. On the pieces I have which I can positively date as pre-war (shapes which haven't been re-issued, earlier colours/ finishes), the marks have either been moulded, diamond point incised, or engraved with a finer-tipped tool.
As for engraved marks on Jobling -- some opalescent pieces were marked "Jobling's" "Opalique" in engraved script from late 1933 onwards (the earliest piece thus marked that I have seen is a large lambton bird bowl). Some pieces also have engraved "Regn. Appld. For" marks, showing they were made before the design registration number was added to the mould.
The modern Sabino Crystal Company have reissued some old designs which were originally not sold under the Sabino name. From their current online catalogue, I recognise an Etling figure and vase, as well as two bowl designs which were previously sold under the 'Ezan' name. There are also other vases in the catalogue which are not shown in Decelle too and are either later designs or moulds acquired from elsewhere. I am not aware of Sabino ever having produced Jobling patterns, and it's generally believed that the Jobling moulds went to other UK makers -- certainly we have evidence of the small Bird & Panel vase mould ending up at Sowerby, while Davidson also reissued Jobling's jazzy cigarette holder base/ ashtray in the sixties.
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Thank-you for all that lovely extra info. Steven. :)
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Yes thankyou Steven, the information was useful to all of us. I had already come to the conclusion, rather belatedly, that the mark was meant to deceive.
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And of real interest that the deceptive mark was so good. :)
It is very, very like the mark made on contemporary Sabino pressings.
But done by somebody who was not quite clever enough for it to be consistent with Sabino work or the correct dates. ;D