Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: glassobsessed on March 18, 2021, 07:33:49 PM
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Bought this to keep and use but would like to know where it is from if possible. 20cm tall with 4 part pontil mark on base, anyone recognise the style?
John
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Is that a broken scar indicating a 4 pronged tool?
(Doh, read the text before peering at the pics, yes, it's a 4 pronger.)
Something about the construction and setting of the murrines reminds me of your Murano wall sconces and lamp in browns with aventurine. But it is a construction and setting that could have been used elsewhere. The seed bubbles are not saying Murano to me, but you know I'm hopeless in this area.
I like it. I can see why you bought it. it does look nice to use. I love how tall and elegant it is. :)
I'm wondering Norman Stuart-Clarke. I've got a goblet he made at LGW in '83. A 4-pronger, and the stem is a rather similar shape. The whole thing is shorter, and the bulge at the bottom of the stem is smaller. I can't see any seed bubbles in the base, and the rest of it is surface decorated, so I can't tell if there are any in that. 15cm tall. :)
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It feels great 'in the hand', gonna christen it tonight.
Yes it has the look and feel of studio, bit too lumpy and bumpy for your average bit of Murano. The orange, white and black canes are reminiscent of some Carlo Scarpa, they are not right though and to my eye the style is just not 1930s Murano.
I wondered about George Elliot too along with a fair few flights of fancy.
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I've got a George Elliott goblet in my mitts. 1973. The "ET" one. He might well have used a 4 pronger, but the scars have been further heat treated, or even as if it has had 3 tiny blobs of glass put over the pits and heat "smoothed".
It has more seed bubbles than the N S-C. Sorry, no pics of the base.
The N S-C is much better balanced and feels better in the hand.
I have also just "hefted" my other studio goblets.
George Elliott is the only awkward and difficult to hold one. Annette Meech, Anthony Stern, Michael Harris, Fleur Tookey, Norman S-C and my suspected Jiri Suhajek are all nicely balanced, even if they are wonky. None of those are 4-prongers.
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There is something very controlled about the decoration on my goblet, it does not have the typical free flowing feel of Elliot's work, did GE ever have a minimalist phase I wonder?
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;) It's the excellent control over the small details in the murrines has me a bit stuck on N S-C for this.
And the 4 prongs and the same shape of stem as mine. My photo doesn't show the bulge at the bottom of the stem as well as it is in reality. It's very definitely there and a feature of the design.
Have you finished watching Blown Away? Chris Taylor had real troubles and difficulties trying to add vertical canes to the bottom of a vessel, he wanted those to come down to a narrow base, as your goblet is. It turned out to be far harder than he had anticipated and did not go well for him.
Getting those murrines into the tiled sections, adding them to the bottom of the bowl and smoothing them in to a narrow base is something that would be extremely difficult, even for a very experienced, brave and experimental maker as Chris Taylor is.
Both N S-C and GE do cover a lot of different styles. Base finishes on N S-C pieces do vary too. My two vases have flat bases, one looks satinated, the other is kind of wheel polished, it has left a semi-circular swathe of wheel marks all over it. The signatures are on the sides, not the base.
Who else did use a 4 pronged tool?
I've just had another thought. Murrines, tiled like this, into a wall of glass like this, are found in some Vistosi birdies, are they not? 8)
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Vistosi birds when they have murrine are in a band rather than discrete 'panels', similar use can be found in some Cenedese designs too.
Some George Elliot goblets have a similar shaped stem it seems as well.
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GE seems to cover many different styles. He's rather versatile and I don't know the full extent of everything he did.
Goblets are not the easiest of things to make, and I have been trying to collect early studio specimens. It's a very small, niche area, there are really not that many around, so this fascinates me. I do believe it to be an early Studio Glass goblet and I really want to know who made it.
I don't know how many of the early workers even attempted goblets around the beginning of the movement in Europe or the States, although I've been concentrating on the European end.
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Bought another yesterday that I reckon could be the same maker but this time smaller and with a yellow and black trail. There are some other obvious differences - the shape of the stems and the pontil marks.
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How about a Welsh glass studio?
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Not that many to choose from really, Laugharne are long closed now and this does not fit their style one bit. Eirian Glass are still extant as are Avondale I think but again style would be an issue for both. Similar for Malcolm Sutcliffe and Gate in Brecon as far as I can tell.
Who else am I missing? I don't know of any North Wales makers at all. There is Andrew Murphy a new glass blower here in Cardiff, he has been experimenting with murrine as well as different styles generally, very artistic. Certain they are not his as it happens... Not that it really has that much significance, I bought them both in England.
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It was just a thought
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Your glasses seem to be quite bubbly in the glass and quite rustic in form of the bowls as well as the stems. I can't imagine Shaks or Bath Aqua or Bristol Blue Glass or George Elliott making them for example as their glass is artistic but from what I can see it's clear glass and the bowls are finely formed in shape. I'm probably not describing what I mean very well :-[
Also the pontil mark being different might preclude them being from the same place mightn't it? I don't know though - do makers tend to stick to the 4 prong pontil rod - or is that not a thing?
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https://fieldingsauctioneers.co.uk/lot/217526
https://www.lot-art.com/auction-lots/George-Elliot-Bewdley-Glass-A-group-of-assorted-drinking/1027-george_elliot-19.3.21-fielding
George Elliott made a fair few different styles, and while adventurous, wasn't always the neatest and tidiest, and he did make clear glass goblets with colours added.
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Gave me the opportunity to name check those I can remember Christine, Mr Murphy is one to watch. ;)
George Elliot made glass for a long time, he taught a lot as well, a big influence(r). To me the two glasses are from the same source, I had wondered a little about GE with the first but the second glass is interesting because of how it is made, Sue pointed it out to me. The yellow and black is not so much a trail as a large shard (or murrine?) that has been heated and drawn around, it sits on the surface. The yellow is really thick and makes a distinct ridge that runs around. Sue's green goblet has four applied murrine, from memory also quite thick but not drawn out, they remind me of Ruskin cabochon as it happens...
Just remembered this GE vase that has canes worked into the surface in just the same way as the Murrine panels on the first glass. All very circumstantial.
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There is an interesting goblet in 20th Century Glass by Charles Hajdamach, plate 878 on page 421. Interesting in that it is in a similar style with a band of blue around the bowl, shorter and squatter at around 13cm, unsigned, by Annette Meech.
The photo does not show enough detail for a good comparison so keeping an open mind.