Glass Message Board
Glass Discussion & Research. NO IDENTIFICATION REQUESTS here please. => British & Irish Glass => Topic started by: LinzC on July 27, 2021, 12:07:11 PM
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So, I bought this little sweet dish. It has Sowerby peacock on the base and faint registration lozenge internally. It matches pattern 5004. However, the registration is really hard to read and some of it doesn't make sense (what looks like a U in parcel number for example).
I couldn't see RD 370378 (21/09/1881 parcel 16) in the glass gallery, and Jenny Thompson describes it as a "sweetmeat (has handles, scalloped rim)" which fits. I've attached a quick photo for now, but I'm wondering if I've misinterpreted the Rd. I've included photos from different angles as the lighting picks up different aspects. I think the month is a partial D and the year a partial E.
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can't see too clearly from your pix, but think your assessment of lozenge data to arrive at 370378 is probably correct. Seems to have been a busy day for Sowerby with ten items Registered on 21st September 1881 - Nos. 370370 - 79, and assuming I'm reading the details correctly then the diamond - clockwise from the top - reads .......... 21st - E for 1881 - D for September - parcel 16. Both the factory drawing and the Kew Register page appear to be calling this a 'Sweet' rather than a sweet dish, but see what you think - I've attached pictures from the Representations Book and Register. The factory description showing in the Register also appear to show this item as a 'Sweet', and of the other nine items from that day none is described as a sweet, so seems you are safe. Unfortunately, appears someone spilled their coffee on the Register page, and apologies the details appear small - hope you might be able to blow this one up.
The fact that your diamond details are partly illegible is often an indication that the mould was worn at the time of this particular pressing, so suggesting this piece may date from some time after 1881 - but that's only a guess on my part.
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Thank you so much for that Paul. The design doesn't match, but at least I can rule that design registration number.
Mine doesn't have feet, or the cross over detail on the handle. I'll try and get more photos to show the details.
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So, here are a few more photographs of the dish. It measures 5.5" from handle to handle, 3.75" across the width and 1.5" tall.
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A few more, plus the image from the Sowerby pattern book (circa 1885) for comparison purposes. It's listed under Sweetmeats or Jellies.
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at no extra expense we may now have the answer, which is .................. Sowerby Reg. 355156 from 14th September 1880 - see attached picture, and for which the diamond details - clockwise from the top - should read:- 14th for the day - J for 1880 - D for September - and the Register is saying that the parcel is No. 1. However, there does appear to be some confusion - why would the authors suggest this was a 'sweetmeat' or 'sweet' when the factory drawing shows quite clearly the word 'dish', and how do these new lozenge details compare with the diamond on your piece and is this one on the Board's pressed glass gallery?
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Wow. Thank you so much for this Paul. I really appreciate the help.
The image on the registration document definitely fits the shape, of the sweet/dish and the handle.
The only character that matches the lozenge on the dish would be the D at the base for September. I really cannot see the year as a J at all. Not even if I squint at it.
The lozenge on mine looks like -
1 at the top (which is centred so it doesn't feel as though there is other number either side)
F or E at the right (there's a definite straight down stroke, with straight upper line and shorter straight middle line, but they fade out)
Bottom looks like a partial D (straight down stroke and slight curve visible)
and a U on the left for parcel number ???
I think it's a safe assumption that if there is a U in the parcel number position then there may be errors elsewhere.
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There is a 355156 dish in the glass gallery, it says it has the registry design but no peacock. Otherwise it seems identical to mine.
Thank you again for the help ;D Rd No. 355156 it is then.
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regret I'm rusty on this subject of errors and problems with Registration details for pressed glass, though I'm aware from information that Fred used to post that there were some unresolved issues.
Unfortunately, my brain has exhausted it's usefulness on this one I think - perhaps others might be able to offer more details, but if you need anything more from either the Register or Representations books I can of course post pictures - let me know should that be the case. best of luck. :) Perhaps the Mods. might be able to correct the subject heading. :)
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I agree with you LinzC about the lozenge details, I think someone made it up as they went along.
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I think also that with makers like Sowerby, who manufactured and Registered a vast array of shapes and patterns, they may well have considered it not-unreasonable to re-use a No. - or at least some details already Registered - if they were making a new item that was similar to a previous style. Can't prove this but very good possibility. Another point is that we're speaking here of a design that - in theory - was made and Registered something like one hundred and forty years back - such pieces should show a fair amount of wear - and if not then we might question whether this piece came from a more recent mould.
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I'm inclined to agree Paul. This dish pops up in various Sowerby pattern books, latest time it's shown is 1927.
There was another dish introduced around the same time as this one (1880's), same shape but different pattern. I don't know if the sizes are comparable though. It's always possible the plungers were repurposed. I seem to remember reading somewhere they did that with some of the carnival pieces.