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Glass Discussion & Research. NO IDENTIFICATION REQUESTS here please. => British & Irish Glass => Topic started by: essi on December 12, 2021, 06:30:47 PM
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Picked this up today as the colour appealed to me. Inside is a RD lozenge that i tried to photograph. I did not see the Sowerby mark
until i was resizing the photo's.
The decoration on the side seems to be peacocks and flowers.
It measures 3.5 inches long and 2.25 inches tall.
Do any members have an approximate date of manufacture?
Thanks,
Tim
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without knowing details of the lozenge it's not possible to be accurate about date - this does appear to be a piece of Sowerby's Blanc-de-Lait, so assume c. 1880. Would be good if you can read the details of the Registration diamond, as not possible to see details adequately from the picture.
Edited to add ................. Blanc-de-Lait was a new product in 1880, but of course this pinched shape of basket had probably been around for some time prior to that date, and made by other houses too. The diamond/lozenge mark ceased in January 1884, so would have been made prior to that date anyway.
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Thanks for the swift response Paul, i will try and dig about with a torch and mirror to see if i can provide more info.
I need an endoscope.
Tim
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sounds kinky ;D You might try rubbing with carbon paper or talc (the glass I mean), it could help. Apparently Sowerby Registered a vaguely similar pinched basket on 18th February 1879, and in fact knocked it out in Blanc-de-Lait within the next 12 - 18 months. Not like yours with feet, but a simple circular foot and different decorative pattern. Will have a look and see if yours can be found in the other books.
The peacock image on yours in very appropriate - for Sowerby. :)
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Sorry Paul, that's about the best i can do at the moment.
We do have endoscopes in engineering as well ;D
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Hi Tim,
Is this the same shape...
https://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,52049.msg295305.html#msg295305
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well done Greg. So this shape/design first Registered November 1878, and likely the Blanc-de-Lait version about two or three years later from the same mold - the interim period of many pressing probably accounting for the wear resulting in the lozenge details becoming worn. Though of course we don't know how many molds of the same design were in use at the same time.
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That's a perfect match Greg. I bet the open bowl RD info is a lot easier to read.
I'm scared to get into the current debate about opalescence. The link to Greg's basket refers to an opalescence version
and Paul refers to a blanc de lait (milk white)
It may be my bad photos but i think mine is opalescent.
Thanks to Greg and Paul for there knowledge.
(no need for the endoscope ;D)
Tim
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although Tim's translation of Sowerby's description 'Blanc-de-Lait' sounds as though it should be 'milk white', in fact in the flesh 'Blanc-de-Lait' doesn't have the appearance of 'milk glass' - that's a type of opaque glass unrelated to the discussion here, and dissimilar in appearance.
Quoting from Ray Slack .............. "On 1 May 1880 a new glass was announced and a report of that date in the Pottery Gazette gave the following appraisal .............
"Amongst the latest novelties in glass is an article called Blanc-de-Lait ware by Sowerby etc. etc. " ........... so there seems no doubt that the factory were responsible for choosing this new name.
I think that if this were manufactured today, then yes, we might call it opalescent - but as we appear currently to have various interpretations about the use of the word opalescent, then IMHO we should stick with Sowerby's original Pottery Gazette description of Blanc-de-Lait to avoid confusion with other products.
Subsequent to the C19, and with the C20 obsession with the word opalescent - the whole world of 'Blanc-de-Lait' goes pear shaped - and quoting again from the Pottery Gazette ............ "Three years have been spent in experiments on the opalescent product by Mr. Sowerby and his art workmen etc. etc."
and from here on in the word opalescent seems to become the vogue word for anything with a hint of the opal appearance.
To further complicate matters - and IMHO it appears that Simon Cottle makes an error when speaking of Sowerby products from that period - he writes in the Tyne & Wear Museums Service guide to the exhibition of Sowerby glass in 1986, and when speaking of Vitro Porcelain, says - "" The first colour, Turquoise - made in imitation of the turquoise mineral - resembled the light bluishness of true Chinese porcelain and is almost as translucent. It was closely followed by a milky, semi-transparent glass, entitled Opal. This term has often been used to describe Sowerby's Blanc-de-Lait colour which was developed in 1880 and is a solid opaque white""
I feel sure that Cottle has confused himself over two separate products - Opal Vitro-Porcelain is opaque and was first Registered in 1877, and Blanc-de-Lait wasn't invented until 1880 and appears translucent as Tim's piece here - so in theory there shouldn't be confusion.
Sowerby's first invention in their range of Vitro-Porcelain was an opaque white which they called 'Opal', and this was first Registered with the Board of Trade in 1877 - though the actual pieces produced appear to have been designs that the company had Registered the previous year.
Sowerby's true 'Opal' Vitro-Porcelain' is opaque, and not a semi-transparent material as described by Cottle - this apparent use of the word Opal for the two products has given rise to some confusion between Blanc-de-Lait and Opal Vitro-Porcelain, particularly for people who haven't seen both products - either in a book or in the flesh.
In the aforementioned Tyne & Wear publication, Simon Cottle reproduces a photographic image of Sowerby's products, with the caption .... ""A group of opalescent press-moulded glass with amber staining, rose and green (or 'Vaseline'?), c. 1882."" The reference to vaseline i.e. u.v. reactive, seems difficult to understand as all eight pieces look to be Blanc-de-Lait and none has a green appearance. I could be wrong but don't think Sowerby did an opalescent uranium green - though of course they certainly produced uranium glass.
With the potential for confusion regarding some of Sowerby's C19 inventions i.e. Opal Vitro-Porcelain and the opalescent appearance of Blanc-de-Lait, I'd suggest that it will make for a clearer understanding of which product we're discussing if we retain the factory's original description of Blanc-de-Lait - for pieces such as Tim's - rather than just a blanket word opalescent.
Apologies this is over long - not easy when discussing antique matters. ;D
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Thanks very much for the detailed breakdown of the colour terminology.
From now on it's blanc de lait for me regarding Sowerby.
Not sure what it means but the basket shows light purple (ultra violet?) under a UV lamp.
Thanks again,
Tim
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;D ;D sure, provided it is their opalescent type of glass. In some ways Blanc-de-Lait has some resemblance to Lalique and Jobling's Opalique - the opalescence (opaqueness) becomes more noticeable in the thicker parts of the glass. If you can beg, steal or borrow a copy of Ray Slack's book on C19 pressed glass there are some examples showing there and some text where he describes in more detail extracts from the Pottery Gazette etc. - well worth the money if you collect Victorian pressed glass.
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I don't have the Ray Slack book but do have the Sowerby Gateshead glass, Simon Cottle.
The bowls we are discussing appear on the top left hand side of page 110 of the 1882 pattern book.
Two examples of the bowls are shown. the first bowl has the number 1350 as per Agincourt's post.
The second bowl has the number 1350 and a half.
These two bowls have different handle orientation and only pattern 1350 and a half can be hot worked to produce
the shape of mine and Greg's basket.
Pressed glass is not my area of collecting but i always look at the post's in British and Irish glass.
Tim