Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: NevB on January 21, 2022, 07:33:52 PM
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This is a bit of an oddity. The decoration appears to be a naively acid-etched ship with round-headed figures in hats. The wavy lines, seagulls? and floral motif are, I think, wheel engraved. I've seen a couple of vases tentatively described as "Stiegel type", an 18thC. American manufacturer, but that seems unlikely. Another one with a similar style of decoration is described as mid 19thC Dutch which may be possible. There was speculation of maybe early 20thC. Bohemian. Mine has a roughly smoothed pontil and a ground and polished rim which I think is original as the overall proportions look correct. As you can see it's full of bubbles.
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More photos.
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very modern - very cheap and wheel engraved, not acid etched. From where I hear you ask - or not - Spain, Israel, China, anywhere that produces such faux antique pieces. I think the 'ships' are mostly of a similar appearance.
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Paul, with lots of wear on the base and in uranium glass??
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well, uranium blanks are not uncommon, in a variety of shapes, as we know, and if a bit oldish will can have much wear. A year or two back these things were quite common at boot fairs, and we have had them on the Board previously. The type of decoration is fairly consistent, and lacks the quality of a period example. Wear can be added or increased to suggest age, but these things look the part sufficiently to fool people who know little of antique glass. Perhaps Egypt might be another source - try the Board's search and you should see others.
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It is not Uranium glass. It is soda glass.
Soda glass will show green glow under UV light which is why sometimes people show clear glass examples under UV light that show green and think there is Uranium it.
It is not "Very modern". 1930-50's I believe. I have always thought these to be Venetian.
It is purposely "naive" engraving. That is how the range was designed.
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Soda glass can be uranium glass, particularly as soda glass is the world's most common type of base glass. Any green glow from glass is not due to the soda (sodium dioxide) component. A dull green glow is caused by the manganese decoloriser used in older colourless and sometimes coloured formulae. A very bright green glow is caused by uranium coloriser (yellow when on its own).
That said, I too don't believe these naive ship engraved items have much age. That wear looks faked to me and you have to wonder why such a simple construction has both a pontil mark and a cut and polished rim...
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These have been on the board before:
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,56792.msg323449.html#msg323449 (http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,56792.msg323449.html#msg323449)
https://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,63382.0.html (https://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,63382.0.html)
I think the common belief was Portuguese or Spanish, and quite recent...
Michael
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That said, I too don't believe these naive ship engraved items have much age. That wear looks faked to me and you have to wonder why such a simple construction has both a pontil mark and a cut and polished rim...
The wear looks as genuine to me as I have ever seen. Not sure the base has a pontil mark. Looks like an indentation to me.
If any of you have, or come across any of these poor quality modern vases that are more than just straight vessels, I am interested.
Very cheap of course as it it deemed to be modern cheap rubbish.
Challis 10 1/2" high
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Vase 9 3/4" high
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It is uranium glass but also, by my calculations, its density is 3.4gms/cm3 which puts it in the lead glass range, it also rings. The "pontil mark" is indeed just an indentation left behind after the base was smoothed. The wear on the base looks genuine and overall it looks to me to be from the 1920's/30's and European. I don't think it's supposed to be a copy of anything earlier but the more modern ones are copies of it, but who knows for sure.
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The two items I pictured have been in storage for a long time.
It just happens that 4 days prior to this thread starting I came across them again so knew where they were.
Having now brought them home and put a UV light to them I have to agree they are Uranium glass and of lead content. (My memory of them was obviously faded). I do have some more pieces but of more run-of-the-mill shapes....don't know where they are though.
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I’ve got a few of these and see them around regularly,it would be nice to know their exact age and source ?,Sometimes you see the flared cylinder shape being passed of as American 18th century flip glasses,which they are not.
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Yes bat20 there are a lot of similar ones about and several posts on here discussing their origin. There seem to be differences in the way they are made, snapped pontils or smoothed pontils and fire polished rims/ground and polished rims.
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There seem to be differences in the way they are made, snapped pontils or smoothed pontils and fire polished rims/ground and polished rims.
I still do not think that the indentation on the base is a pontil mark. Maybe I just don't remember but I don't think I have ever seen a "smoothed" pontil or even heard of the technique.
The punty rod would have held the glass (base) where the trumpet vase meets the base. Placed on the Marver for the trumpet to be applied.
The top is polished because the trumpet was pushed onto the base from the top "which was still a "bubble" held onto the punty at the top. Once applied to the base, the top was broken off the punty then cut to length and the rim polished.
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Another version here
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/264986233564?hash=item3db2690adc:g:N70AAOSwVYZf4jqe
I think Old Glassman said on another thread that he'd seen them being made in Spain a few years prior to his post.
m
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This is a site I pasted to a previous post, video 2 is particularly interesting.
https://www.discontinueddesigns.co.uk/product-category/thomas-webb/
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Thank you NevB. That's a great video! Lovely to watch. Amazing skill all round. Glass making is such an incredible art.
m
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Yes m incredible skill. It shows the different uses of the blowing iron and the pontil/punty iron. I think I read that the word "punty" was first used in the North-east and it is the local pronunciation of pontil, pronounced "pontee" in French