Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: bat20 on January 24, 2022, 03:54:53 PM
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Hi ,I came across a few pieces on line with very similar colours to this bowl described as tango glass from about 1930 and made by Welz .It has a small polished pontil with an applied darker blue glass for the rim and feet,can any one confirm , or did all the bohem factories do the same ??thanks …the lighter blue is a better depiction of the true colour.
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mm, that could be Loetz or Kralik tango glass.
Have you checked Craig's site to see if it appears on there?
http://www.kralik-glass.com/
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I have some of these plates knocking around, at some point I decided they were most likely Welz. Would describe the blue as a powder blue and it has a tiny hint of purple. A little different from the tripod vase which is more of a sky blue, I think that one could be Kralik.
John
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Thanks for the replies John and m,here’s a few more photo’s in a different light and I found a Loetz bowl 22cm wide and 9cm high , my piece is 22cm wide and 8.7 cm high. The feet on the Loetz piece are curled over more although the part that attaches to the bowl is very similar ..
https://scottishantiques.com/Michael-Powolny-Tango-Glass
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Yours looks like a different blue again. I take the attribution of Loetz to that bowl with a pile of salt.
John
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😂 ,thought you may say that John,I don’t leap any more either.It’s a mine field !.Can you get similar Opel colours in different lights with your plates or are they more solid in colour ?
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Thanks for the replies John and m,here’s a few more photo’s in a different light and I found a Loetz bowl 22cm wide and 9cm high , my piece is 22cm wide and 8.7 cm high. The feet on the Loetz piece are curled over more although the part that attaches to the bowl is very similar ..
https://scottishantiques.com/Michael-Powolny-Tango-Glass
What you have found is a bowl described as Loetz Tango from a dealer. I can find no reliable evidence of this colourway ever having been produced by Loetz.
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Ok , apologies to all,I misread the post .Can I add that I hope you you stay Paul, your comments are always welcome .
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There is a range of glass designed by Michael Powolny for Loetz.
There are follow on productions by Wetz, Kralik and others that look similar to Tango but are not and they never called it so.
To heap the same name on to all glass similar causes confusion. It would best be called Tango Style.
Using the same name leads to such instances as follows and that is the danger of comparing "similar" to actual.
. Ref. loetz.com Michael Powolny:
"The 2009 Herman Spaink book 'Loetz Tango Glass' includes many (very good) photos of glass which the author wrongly attributes to Powolny and/or Loetz. This has caused huge confusion in the art glass world; indeed, this book is probably the single biggest source of Loetz misattributions. Just today I searched ebay.com for 'loetz tango'. I had 71 hits, many including Powolny in the description, and much more than half were not made by Loetz and almost all had no connection whatsoever to Powolny. Several of those that do look like Loetz products in the photos must be approached with care – Vienna's many souvenir shops are full of passable modern reproductions of the genuine Powolny designs for Loetz, and these sometimes find their way to eBay or to auctions described as Loetz originals"
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The Tango Sklo exhibition in 2012 showed a variety of colour combinations from a number of different manufacturers ( not just Loetz) under the name of Tango Sklo - in the Muzeum Vysociny Havlickuv Brod in collaboration with Glass Museum Novy Bor:
https://img25.rajce.idnes.cz/d2502/6/6618/6618931_d7add26663f00a4768ca6795ee744bc3/images/02_tango_sklo_-_promeny_barevnych_kontrastu.jpg?ver=3
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I mentioned Loetz or Kralik because I originally thought this bowl was Kralik but I now think was Loetz and appeared in the above named exhibition in a different colourway as Loetz iirc:
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=36855.0;attach=58998;image
The rim was dark purple and the polished pontil mark and base finish looked in my view, like the OPs bowl I thought.
Here is a link to the page on Loetz.com that EW quoted the information from regarding Loetz and Powolny's designs for them (more information on there):
https://www.loetz.com/designers/michael-powolny
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Very interesting replies, I’m sure I and many others are learning a lot of new things .The one thing I think I can add at this stage and having the advantage of handling the bowl is it does have age related wear on the feet and on the inside and outside of the bowl.
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Very interesting replies, I’m sure I and many others are learning a lot of new things .The one thing I think I can add at this stage and having the advantage of handling the bowl is it does have age related wear on the feet and on the inside and outside of the bowl.
No doubting the age of the bowl.
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The Tango Sklo exhibition in 2012 showed a variety of colour combinations from a number of different manufacturers ( not just Loetz) under the name of Tango Sklo - in the Muzeum Vysociny Havlickuv Brod in collaboration with Glass Museum Novy Bor:
https://img25.rajce.idnes.cz/d2502/6/6618/6618931_d7add26663f00a4768ca6795ee744bc3/images/02_tango_sklo_-_promeny_barevnych_kontrastu.jpg?ver=3
That is the error of their ways. (Museum)
No other company produced Tango. Only Loetz. Others produced follow on in the style of Tango. That a museum should choose to use such a title is to facilitate the errors now made in attribution.
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I wonder if the horse hasn’t bolted on the everything copying the Loetz tango design being put under the same Monica,and wasn’t it ever thus during our history in all walks of life .It’s been interesting looking at vast world of tango and tango inspired glass, it must have been a big seller for everyone and his dog to do their own take on it, with the blue being not so popular maybe ?as I haven’t come across it as much ?
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https://rover.rajce.idnes.cz/Tango_sklo/493183115
The explanation of the exhibition
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Can you get similar Opel colours in different lights with your plates or are they more solid in colour ?
I had a look at them late last night but wanted to check them again with daylight, this time I am somewhat embarrassed to say the trailed rims are amethyst - hence the purple tint... The pale blue is opalescent as well, another surprise. They are made with a thin layer of nigh on opaque pale blue glass cased in a much thicker layer of clear. There were these bowls in the exact same colour combination as well but they are long gone now.
My plates and bowls seem to be tableware rather than art glass - does the distinction applies here? Presumably the intention was that they would be used as such.
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Ah - re John's plates and bowl not OPs then... this Loetz bowl had an amethyst trailed rim as well as I mentioned earlier in the thread. The same bowl in a different colourway is definitely shown in the Tango Sklo exhibition as Loetz.
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=36855.0;attach=58998;image
It can pay to talk and discuss and come back to things ;) .. well maybe.
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I would say my bowl was very much made as an everyday use type item with the styling of the day John,thanks for having a look .Thanks for all your replies ,I haven’t really looked into this glass before and will keep researching .
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I had a look at them late last night but wanted to check them again with daylight, this time I am somewhat embarrassed to say the trailed rims are amethyst - hence the purple tint... The pale blue is opalescent as well, another surprise. They are made with a thin layer of nigh on opaque pale blue glass cased in a much thicker layer of clear. There were these bowls in the exact same colour combination as well but they are long gone now.
My plates and bowls seem to be tableware rather than art glass - does the distinction applies here? Presumably the intention was that they would be used as such.
]
Your bowls were Loetz Ausführung 218 I believe
http://www.kralik-glass.com/frametemplate.html
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The feet on mine were cut off at the rim unlike the feet on Ausf 218 which from memory are solid with a polished pontil mark. I did have an example a while back but can not find any photos now, I did not know it was Loetz when I sold it and if there is an image it will be in the wrong place... Can't remember which colour combo either, Greg may remember it.
Loetz Ausf 218 : https://www.loetz.com/decors-a-z/ausfuehrung/ausf-218
This is not right for Loetz but does look like a relation to my bowls: https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/superb-loetz-art-deco-tango-vase-271385158
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I've only had the pink bowl with pulled amethyst rim i.e. no applied foot. So I've no experience of whether those Loetz Aus.218 with applied feet are always with a solid base rather than cut I'm afraid. Is it a known feature that they are always solid? I'm only asking because the two you show are so similar to those on Craig's site.
m
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Here you go John, cut foot on this 218. Hope this helps.
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Thanks Greg. Got that wrong then!
However, I reckon there is more than one maker represented here: http://www.kralik-glass.com/loetzaus218array.html
Those with a double 'pad' only are shown on Loetz.com as 218.
The bowls did not have the feel of Loetz for me, both general quality and design were not quite there, usually expect a bit more of a flourish with Loetz.
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This one Ausfuhrung 165 with an open foot
https://glaskilian.de/jugendstil-art-deco/deutschland-boehmen/loetz/303/loetz-wwe.-aufsatzschale-entwurf-dagobert-peche-1916
Obviously a different dekor to yours but just thought I'd show another with an open foot and single knop from Loetz.
I wouldn't completely dismiss Loetz for your plates. I'm sure I've seen Loetz tango plates somewhere but not sure where at the moment. Will have a search around.
That colour with the slight purple in the blue is particularly gorgeous. S&W did it as well.
However before that, over a century before, it appeared as Bleu Lavande in early French opaline glass and also appeared in Bohemian glass which was almost opaque in the 1820s. It's the epitomy of all the blues in my opinion :)