Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: cagney on March 22, 2022, 01:20:42 AM
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Recently acquired. Blown moulded [pressure moulded] bowl. Free blown and tooled stem and foot. Ground and polished foot bottom with cut star. Thin cut [ finger flutes] above pattern on bowl. Form exactly like 503 on 2 partie planche1 in the 1840 catalog. Nice to know that lines above the pattern are cut , not moulded. 3 1/2 inches tall.
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Thanks for sharing and what a great find :)
Is it heavy and solid and does it feel great to hold with a drink? I love my uranium glass tumblers. They are so ergonomic.
m
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Yes m. For some reason this type of glassware seems to invoke a response in me. Not sure exactly why. wether it's weight, the soft contours of the patterns, or ergonomics. Probably all three and some other. A kind of "tactile attraction' . Once I put it down I want to pick it up again. On another level I just like the three different approaches in combination all in one piece. They seem to be always of a consistent quality as well.
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Do you know what the pattern number is? Was it made by Baccarat? I'm just wondering if it was by them (does the pattern code have an italic B in front of it?) because from memory I think they invented some pressure molding new system around that time. So I'm thinking it was possibly used to create your goblet.
m
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https://www.glas-musterbuch.de/Launay-Hautin-1840.20+B6YmFja1BJRD0yMCZwcm9kdWN0SUQ9NzQwJnBpZF9wcm9kdWN0PTIwJmRldGFpbD0_.0.html
Here is the catalogue page, the heading says "B et St. L.". I was researching something else and found Baccarat were using compressed air moulding from the 1840's.
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Oooh that's irritating that it's on a page that says B & St. L as a header. I was just wondering about it because mine have an italic B in front of the pattern number.
I think this is when they had a joint marketing effort ongoing. Baccarat and Saint Louis had taken over and incorporated one, or perhaps two, other French makers in the process as well iirc. I'm going from memory here.
I don't know why some in Launay Hautin have the code in front of the designs and then others like yours have a 'joint' page. Perhaps the machinery was used for both companies but invented at Baccarat?
m
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The invention of the process goes back to the 1820s by Ishmael Robinet of Baccarat. This subject has been alluded to on the board previously. Topic:" Luanay & Hautin catalogue 1840: Three examples. show & tell " Nov. 08, 2020 by me. Also a different topic by Paul S. May 22, 2013 titled "J.C. Cottle decanter Rd.744629" reply #2.
I have just bought a copy of the "GLASS CLUB BULLETIN" no. 126 [ Sept. 1979 ] online today. This contains an article by Miriam E. Mucha titled " MECHANIZATION FRENCH STYLE CHRISTAUX, MOULES en PLEIN" stay tuned.
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That sounds as though it could be a very interesting read. I have read about the Baccarat process somewhere online and now in the recesses of my brain and I'm sure Ivo also discussed it in years gone by on the board.
Lovely glass. If mine weren't uranium I would use them.
m
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To your previous reply #5 m. Your assumptions seem to be correct. The invention was not patented and certainly known within the French glass industry by the year 1832 when Ishmael Robinet was awarded a Gold Medal and 8,000 francs by L Academie des Sciences and a very generous pension by Baccarat.
A quote from the article in the bulletin "In studying these catalogs it becomes very evident the two firms worked closely together for the years in question. In some cases they supplemented for one another sizes of objects within the same pattern".
I was thinking of starting a new topic to address this subject in a more general way to the board. What do you think m?
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The board is for anyone to start any topic (related to glass) that they may wish to :)
Personally I think it's a fascinating topic. Especially in light of the joint marketing (and possibly production?) tie up. Also because there are a couple of quite extensive catalogues of the results of this method available to view. I suppose most importantly though, because it possibly changed French glass production in a big way and technologically is an incredibly interesting invention.
m
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Is there any way of telling which Baccarat pieces from this era are blown pressure moulded or pressed? Were they all made with the same technique? I am sitting on a Baccarat goblet (with handle), breakfast cup (with handle) and a cup plate - which has an odd gadget mark in the centre of the plate, assuming it's not damage.
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Some details on the air pressure moulded ware can be found at this link under the heading of "characteristics".
https://glasmessages.com/index.php/topic,71838.msg400053 (https://glasmessages.com/index.php/topic,71838.msg400053)
I would add that mold lines seem almost impossible to detect. Of the four pieces pictured in the link I could only find the faintest of mold line on the cordial. Some cutting done after annealing more often than not.
I have not handled any of the lacy [stippled] type patterns said to be air pressure moulded. I would think that any example of pressure moulding by air would have a less defined "ghost" impression on the inside corresponding with the major pattern, if not the stippling.
Pressed articles would be quite smooth on the inside to allow the plunger to exit the mold.
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Forgot the www. https://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,71838.msg400053 (https://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,71838.msg400053)
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Thanks, on my pieces the mould lines are fairly easy to spot on the top rim but of course disappear into the stippled pattern. From your remarks I think all mine are pressed.
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I would contact Siegmar Geiselberger at Pressglas-Korrespondenz and ask his opinion.
He has been incredibly helpful to me regarding the uranium Baccarat becher or tumbler I posted on the very lengthy thread.
He also sent me links in the Pressglas-Korrespondenz with information on the Launay Hautin catalogues and history of the companies. It makes absolutely fascinating reading.
m