Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: rocco on April 08, 2022, 05:20:27 PM
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I bought this a while back, and I am fairly sure I was sure it was Maltese then (not Mdina, I think Mtarfa?).
But I can't find any comparable pieces now, so any help appreciated! :)
Stands appr. 20 cm tall, moss green glass with bubbles and metallic powders, no silver chloride I think.
Flat polished base, unmarked.
Michael
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I had a beautiful Gozo glass cylinder vase but it was much smaller than this. Was it perhaps Gozo you were thinking of?
m
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Having said that and had a quick look I'm not sure the casing and the shape of the base fit in with Gozo Glass.
Still, it could be worth a bit of research.
m
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Thanks m! :)
I had a look through all the Malta glass companies, but nothing really similar came up.
But some of their "earlier" stuff is not so easy to be found....
edit: but that aqua green casing does look very Maltese, at least
Michael
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I would be looking elsewhere, it just doesn't say Malta to me. Vaguely Ekenas, more of a Scandinavian feel perhaps.
John
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John, thank you very much, greatly appreciated!
If the Malta glass experts think this vase is rather not Maltese I will have too look elsewhere.
The feature that I was not able to find anywhere else so far is the aqua green casing of my vase -- it is so typical of the Maltese glassworks.
I have a nice Ekenas vase by Lake, it is signed and has a polished pontil mark -- after looking through 100s of pics this seems to be the common base finish; so I am rather sure the green vase is not Ekenas. Here are good pics of a typical Ekenas vase: https://auctionet.com/de/1232176-vaser-2-st-ekenas-glashytta-sverige/images#image_1 (https://auctionet.com/de/1232176-vaser-2-st-ekenas-glashytta-sverige/images#image_1)
I have to admit, though, that there is not much seen online apart from the Lake designed pieces.
Motzfeldt drew a blank as well. And now I am stuck, as I cannot think of any other glassworks to google.
I bought this vase on ebay UK several years ago. So could any of the glassworks associated with Isle of Wight glass (Kerry glass) be an option?
Michael
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I am trying to attach some pics of early Mtarfa to show colours. They are old pics, and I actually think the little square perfume bottle is Phonoecian, now.
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A single feature like the greenish casing can lead you away from considering everything else. In this case the colours used and the black graphite looking whatever it is doesn't ring a Malta bell for me at all, the only Maltese glass I can remember off hand having any black in a vaguely similar fashion is from MDG and then only this dark amber stuff.
There are a couple of Ekenas vases with similar colour palettes in Scandinavian Glass Fire & Sea (pages 108 & 97), a cylinder vase would fit but the black in your vase is absent. My other vague thought was Johansfors but Randsfordglass may be worth looking at.
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I'm not convinced of Malta myself, I just thought the greenish blobs on these early bits were very like some of the swirls at the base of this vase. It was just the nearest Maltese glass I could find with something in common with Rocco's apart from the shape.
The colour of the casings can vary a lot certainly in early Mdina. They had trouble getting hold of cullet and used old milk bottles. It can sometimes be quite yellow, (MDG can have a nasty yellow colour in the casing too)
Other times they got hold of better stuff and it's nice and clear.
What are the exact dimensions?
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Thank you very much Sue and John!
Right -- the casing colour may have mislead me...
@Sue: I like that early Mtarfa range! :)
I don't have the exact dimensions here, but it is appr. 20 cm high, and looks quite nice beside my Mdina cylinder vases (thought the diameter is a bit smaller)
Mtarfa used a green base colour (pic of my ashtray attached), but with silver chloride decor.
MDG also has a similar green, but everything else doesn't fit imho. (Pic of my green bottle attached)
After John's post yesterday I did search the glassworks Ekenas, Plus, Randsfjord and Johansfors. But I couldn't find anything really similar (and for some the base finish doesn't seem to fit). Then I went out of Scandinavian glassworks to google for 8)
Regarding you are both based in the UK and I bought the vase from there -- I think you would have recognized it if a British maker was another possibility?
Greetings from Vienna!
Michael
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The description of dimensions rules out Phonoecian. Not that it was deeply considered. :)
Their cylinders are often a bit shorter and wider than Mdina.
I've just looked at the two Mtarfa cylinders I showed - one is taller than Mdina, the other is shorter.
And I have a more recent Mtarfa cylinder which is smaller and wider. Dimensions were more consistent at Mdina. It can sometimes help. ::)
I've not seen the decor in your turned rim ashtray before, or a green base colour. I've learned!
I've got a turned rim ashtray too, but the base metal is clear and the decor is those greenish blobs, while yours is crizzled, and I don't know where the red that appears, appears from, and it's fascinating!
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Thanks for checking, Sue! :)
I will give the exact dimensions once I am at my apartment again.
Michael
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Ah, forgot the link to the thread with more pics of the green Mtarfa ashtray: https://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,51602.0.html (https://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,51602.0.html)
It is really green (but I think with a little amethyst interspersed). And crizzled. So still very different to my vase.
Edit: I think this vase is from the same "range": https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/green-glass-mtarfa-vase-1777695274?popular (https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/green-glass-mtarfa-vase-1777695274?popular)
Michael
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:-[ I didn't know the green in that thread either and I said so! Sorry Michael, I do have memory troubles.
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I wouldn't remember it either if it wasn't my ashtray. :)
That was 9 years ago...
The best thing I learned so far: my green vase is more interesting than I had thought ;)
Michael
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Update:
I measured the vase today, it stands 19.5 cm tall (quite similar to some of my Mdina cylinder vases), but is narrower at a diameter of 7.5 cm, slightly tapering towards the top to 7.2 cm.
And while taking some close-up pics I noticed that -- opposite to what I said in my opening post -- there seems to be silver chloride used! At least I am quite positive that the yellow bubbles look like the ones in many Mdina vases.
Whatever that indicates I don't know. Any Scandinavian glassworks known for using silver chloride?
Michael
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talking off the top of my head but Malta Decorative Glass just suddenly came to mind. Is there such a thing? MDG? John, Sue could it have been that?
m
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Thanks m! :)
They have a rather distinctive base finish = not perfectly polished but like fine battuto, and their green is a little different (both John and me posted a pic of a MDG piece for comparison on the first page of this thread).
But who knows what they produced in their earliest day...
Michael
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I had a little ponder about Alum Bay - mostly because of the colours. But it looks like very thick glass for them. What I really want is to have this cylinder in my sticky mitts and compare it to several others, including Mdina. I've found some pics of a very unusual Mdina cylinder - one I strongly suspect might be Boffo because it has the grid pattern depicted in the silver trails. I have no idea how it was done.
But it does demonstrate that the traditional stuff is not all there was made.
What about the idea of early experimental IoWSG?
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:-[ that will teach me to read the thread - It just came to mind so I'm glad it wasn't completely out of kilter with other thoughts then.
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I think we're all stabbing around a bit in the dark, and I don't feel so bad about my frequent mistakes now, m. :-*
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:-* you're very kind.
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I don't see any mistakes, just helpful conversation :)
Now I have to think what names to research next.
The sliver chloride put me back on the Malta track, but that may still be the wrong track...
@Sue -- I love that light coloured Mdina cylinder vase!
Michael
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I kind of like it too. I like cylinder vases.
I like your strange greenish one here, and it is bothering me.
Close-up, I can see some things I see close up in early IoWSG, a kind of look you find in the pink and blue swirls attenuated bottles.
Could it be Australian Studio glass? There's a lot of that I don't know nearly enough about.
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has anybody mentioned Phoenician? I know it's often signed but spotted this one (different type of decor I know) and it just made me think ... not always a good thing ;D
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/234430612530?hash=item3695274432:g:cLEAAOSwDIpgPh0L
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I had kind of dismissed Phoenician because of the dimensions - and the decor isn't really their style.
I don't have a huge amount of it, but the early bits I have, which are the ones most similar to early Mdina, show they seem to have made pieces which were rather more refined - neater and smaller, the decor also much neater, detailed and more refined. Vessels seem to be slimmer and so appear taller, or can be shorter so appear more squat.
They may also have silver deposit trails on the outside.
The dimensions of the cylinder in the link there are 18cm x 8cm. Mdina ones are ~ 20 cm x 8cm, (my shortest is 19cm).
But as much as anything, it is the cloudy, abstract decor rather than Phoenician's more normal neat, dainty and refined style.
I know what I mean to say... I just hope it's comprehensible. ::)
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I know what you mean Sue. Just thought I'd mention it again because it popped in to my mind. I checked it out and saw that one so thought it was worth an ask ;D