Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: neil53 on April 22, 2022, 03:39:29 PM
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Hi, I bought these beakers which bear marks to the bases that I don't recognise. Best wishes, Neil
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Hi Neil
I do recall seeing the marks before and also the glasses - at least the top one and the decoration on the bottom one looks North Bohemian to me. I'll need to go through my books a bit later on and see what I can find.
I think they are Bohemian or Austrian and 19th century but unsure whether first half or second half (the first one is very similar to regency era glasses I have definitely seen, but whether it's just in good condition or a later model I'll need to see if I can match). The marks on the bottom might indicate later maybe but I really don't know. I will need to do some reading later to check that feeling out :)
m
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Knew I'd seen it before: :)
https://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,52831.msg299943.html#msg299943
I would stick with my instinct that they are Bohemian, or La Granja as I mentioned in the linked thread, and my thoughts were Lobmeyr when I saw your top one.
The bottom one I think is Bohemian enamelling decoration (maybe North - will need to look that up).
m
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This is a version of that decoration (top image of yours) from La Granja c.1790
http://ceres.mcu.es/pages/Main
You should be able to click on the image underneath where it says Ampliar Imagen and it will enlarge and then you can enlarge it further to see the detail.
m
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Just wondering...the gold band around the rim looks very bright, uniform and shiny. It looks a bit like the type that I think are electroplated rather than something brushed on? Is it worn away at all? Perhaps it’s just in very good condition but if it’s electroplated it would be much later wouldn’t it?
The bands with the roses on the other two are hand painted enamel are they? Definitely not some sort of transfer?
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Thank you so much for looking for the attribution. I have a book on La Granja glass and will look in there when I return from my daughter's wedding in Italy. I had thought Bohemian and perhaps Moser, so La Granja would surprise me, the white beakers being quite thickly blown. Since I bought the white beakers I have seen a couple for sale on eBay and in an auction so doubt that they are Russian Imperial glasses; probably something later and less rare. Something for me to think on while I am away. Once more my thanks for your help to date. Neil
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I honestly think Ivo was right and the top mark on the white glass reads Lobmeyr with the W for Wien.
I have seen the mark on the bottom ones before but I can't remember where.
I've been through the entire Spanish museum website and could not see anything that matched the top one. Similarities in style of enamelling but that will be period related and fashion related but nothing to match. Also yours has a cut top rim and I don't think that would fit with La Granja beakers (could be wrong but all those I looked at seemed to have a fire polished rim), and the glass on yours doesn't look like La Granja opaline as far as I could see.
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Hi, I bumped into Andy McConnell online and shared the images. He thinks that the logo is to imprecise to be Lobmeyr but does think that they are from the first half of the 19th century. He suggested that they might be hausmaler i.e. blanks decorated by somebody as a home industry, but I still have a feeling that they are a production run by somebody.
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Hi, I have been told that this mark may be MVM Cappellin. Anybody have any comments on that attribution? Certainly it would fit with what looks like "MM cap" on the bottom of the glasses. I am pretty sure that the glassmarks on the bottom of both types of tumbler are by the same maker. I didn't think that they looked Murano however.
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Russian version here in the Hermitage Museum
https://www.hermitagemuseum.org/wps/portal/hermitage/digital-collection/08.+applied+arts/917832
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Hi, I have been told that this mark may be MVM Cappellin.
I find that difficult to reconcile with the style of the glass itself - in my limited experience so unlike anything from Cappellin from the 1920s say. It reads MW rather than MM. Wasn't Lobmeyr's mark more like a portcullis?
John
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Hi, firstly a thanks for keeping an eye out for this attribution. Secondly an apology for the late reply but I've been otherwise engaged. There are certainly similarities with the Hermitage glass but I have also checked the gilding and it could well be electroplated, although the edge is irregular so that would tell against it I believe. I've had no additional insight as to their origin but agree that MVM Cappellin is unlikely as I can't believe that they are Murano. According to Andy McConnell the Lobmeyr mark would be more precise if made by them. I don't have sufficient knowledge of Lobmeyr to comment. At the moment I'd have to say that the Russian attribution looks best but wouldn't the mark be in cyrillic script? Kind regards, Neil
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It looks like they are probably museum copies produced for the Novy Bor Glass Museum, see https://www.trocadero.com/stores/globalceramics/items/1417214/Bohemian-Milchglas-milk-glass-beaker-museum-replica
Some information on similar museum copies and possible artist (assuming they are repro):
https://www.realorrepro.com/article/Bohemian-Glass
I know you can’t calibrate wear, but the gilt rim on these looks very fresh. There is another on eBay: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/334597151895?hash=item4de78b5c97:g:QVYAAOSwHzVjTpKk&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAAkNNRZiCEQlHTbgE44vnh11HSF5CQy0rSWLml3P2Sjl9yX5jMb5r%2BHNTGqblMchHm8eCAd3bCiDTe5qcn8GcFbaxvQXinBVi3HKdwdMnMUuGhDkPsitpy7BlnecMTxhBAG29QqxzLjS8wlisQhdtbLmUGMyGcF8ZBgR0CWbyVARQka6v1LRTUnGnD0d30YmHLVw%3D%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR5C7vuaHYQ
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Excellent links Ekimp.
Very interesting. It might be worth the OP contacting the Novy Bor museum to ask for help.
m
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Thanks :) it’s interesting to see the reproductions next to the originals on the Realorrepro page.
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Hi, I think that Ekimp has knocked it on the head. Their being reproductions or museum copies makes sense as I am seeing the occasional example come up at auction and on eBay. The letters "cop" which can be vaguely made out on the mark, and more clearly on the mark of the other glasses that I posted at the same time, may well stand for copy? The M may be shorthand for Museum so shorthand for Museum copy? I looked at the Portheimka Museum web site in Prague but can't find a shop. I'll see what I can find out elsewhere. Once again thanks to those who have taken time out to contribute to this thread. Much appreciated. Neil
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It looks like there are at least a couple of factories producing all sorts of reproduction bohemian glass around Novy Bor.
The company Bohemia-glassworks has an online catalog that, in addition to enamelled ware, includes high end engraved Biedermeier type glass including uranium glass: http://www.bohemian-glassworks.com/index.html They say they collaborate closely with the Museum of glass in Novy Bor.
There is also Glassicenter s.r.o. at Kamenicky Senov. Here is an account of a visit to that factory that is reasonably interesting: https://steemit.com/art/@marty-arts/travel-to-the-city-of-glass-novy-bor-in-czech-republic-my-glass-work