Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: glassobsessed on September 19, 2022, 08:17:17 AM
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Bought this 12cm tall jug to use for it's intended purpose, presumably it was a promotional item given out by the reps. I wondered if made by Vasart or perhaps more likely Strathearn but guess Nazeing would have been possible too.
The white lettering can be felt sticking out on the underside of the 'golf ball type' indentation (is there a name for indentations like this?) but it can't be felt on the inside, the inside feels as if a tool was used to help create that indented shape. The crimson layer looks slightly uneven close up, guessing that was made with powder or frit.
I can imagine the letters being made with a stencil and white powder on the marver and then being picked up by rolling hot glass across. The way the jug was made has me scratching my head though, if the base was pushed in to create the shape how did they avoid distorting those letters?
John
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The lettering does appear to have the use of some mould involved. I'm wondering if white frit was "stuck" to the protrusions of the lettering on a kind of plunger?
I did do copper enamlleing work for a bit many years ago. Patterns could be painted on something using an oil, which frit was sprinkled over. The frit stuck to the oil and any that was remaining outside of the desired areas could be "painted off" using the same oil.
The oil just burnt away on firing.
The red frit could have been applied to the plunger in the same way.
Unless, of course, there are glassmaker's tricks I don't know anything about. ;D ???
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I wonder if a process like that would have been a tad more complicated than strictly necessary - just the introduction of another process really. As to distortion of the letters that might not come into play if the convex shape they are applied to shares the same proportions as the final resulting concave shape. Does that have a logic to it or am I barking up the wrong tree again?
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enamelled white by hand in the mold made hollow lettering, fired, then enamelled with red over the top and fired?
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I think we are imaginging the same kind of mould plunger John, I was just suggesting a process whereby frit could be made to adhere to the plunger temporarily, the rounded surface wouldn't hold it, and I don't think frit could have been put on the body, then plunged. I think flying-free's suggestion of firing the frit to the plunger is a tad overkill and could result in burnt enamels and bits not behaving. ???
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Sue I didn't explain that properly - I meant the enamels were cold painted onto the lettering when it was on the jug. However I misread John's description and thought the lettering was felt to be hollow on the outside of the piece.
wouldn't the enamels just go through a muffle (? heavens,I've no idea if it's really called that but think that's what it was called when they fired the gilded stuff of Jules Barbe?)
very old example here of muffle kiln:
https://collections.vam.ac.uk/item/O68050/firing-enamelled-ware-in-muffle-painting-unknown/
m
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Just had a look with a loupe and the red is definitely frit, can see that it is granular and it has a distinct edge. From the inside it goes clear glass, white characters, red.
In my imagination, a round stencil gives the red shape in powder on the marver another deeper stencil for the letters. First the letters are picked up on the hot bubble then the red circle, blowing/shaping is finished, add handle etc... Simple, unless you actually have to do it yourself!
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I just can't imagine the letters being made with a stencil. I would have thought some kind of domed metal mold with the lettering impressed into the mold. That way the lettering would be impressed into the mold but come out raised on the glass underside wouldn't it?
Sorry just trying to imagine what you mean by stencil and I can only think of those plastic things you use in a school pencil case to make neat lettering for art ;D
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I was thinking similar. That the lettering would be introduced by depressions on the mould surface - as names of manufacturers are in mould marked pressed glass.
I just suggested using an oil to make white frit stick temporarily in the depressions. :)
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The simplest possible process is usually adopted assuming such a thing works of course, the thickness of the letters (if that is what is going on) is a question mark.
This is not relevant but it shows what can be done, as I understand it Timothy Harris created these Jazzy designs by placing the powders on the marver and then drawing the patterns with a fingertip: https://iowstudioglass.wikidot.com/jazz
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They look just like finger drawings in coloured frit. Which is exactly what they are. ;)
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It looks to me as though the lettering has been drawn by hand, rather than using a stencil or mould. For example, if you compare the ‘H’ in whiskey on the two jugs, they are different, the one on the Highland Special example has a sloping horizontal. Also the lettering looks to be different heights and sizes, even from one letter to the next in places. I don’t think that would be accounted for by distortions when making it if printed or using a mould or stencil etc, it looks freehand to me.
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That would have to be done with the glass cold, so it would be blown then cooled then painted and then heated again before the red could be added. A lot of complication along with the risk of reheating, I can't see that, it does not account for the depth of the letters either.