Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: flying free on September 27, 2022, 12:01:19 AM
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Resurrecting this piece I posted on Ivo's thread here:
https://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,51120.msg289741.html#msg289741
Bonbonniere shown here:
https://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,51120.msg289840.html#msg289840
No idea whether my box is pate de verre but looks as though it could be. Also looks as though it could have been blown into a mold (lid and base) then cut from the rim then the surface matt treated somehow. Just adding some info for future reference:
1) I've come across this listing for a base of a lidded box. It looks to have been made in the same process as mine, same shape box base as mine, different colourway. Owner says it's by Andre Delatte and the signature came off when owner cleaned it.
https://www.etsy.com/uk/listing/745279210/glasswork-glass-pot-by-a-delatte-ecole
2) The seller of this Berluze vase says it's by A Delatte and to me it looks as though it's signed with what looks to be something which could conceivably come off when cleaned I think.
https://www.antiques-delaval.com/fr/pate-de-verre/7564-grand-vase-berluze-delatte-nancy-pate-de-verre-art-nouveau-xxeme-siecle.html
Just in case I finally get an identification of A Delatte for my bonbonniere :)
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Different colourway here but same technique in the way the decor has been made and same shape. Seller site seems to have lots of questions (questions marks in listing) but names it as A Delatte, however all other listings also seem to use the question mark in their descriptions regularly so that could be a translation or error use perhaps. Seller says 'signe' so if the question mark is an error use then potentially it could be a marked version of my box!!:
https://www.maisonrc.com/lot/109399/13849972-delatte-nancy-bonbonniereverresearch=&
This vase is the same colourway as my box and is signed according to the information:
https://www.art-vgalerie.com/andre-delatte-vase-art-deco-f668369.html#savoirplus
I've also seen another vase in a different decor (shiny 'jade' type decor) that is the same colourway.
m
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And another decor from Delatte with one of the boxes in the same shape:
https://www.jj-mathias.fr/lot/100686/11585261-andre-delatte-18871953-nancyga
Plus a vase here where indeed some of the signed mark has rubbed off it seems:
https://drouot.com/l/15814118--andre-delatte-1887-chatenois-
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Different colourway here but same technique in the way the decor has been made and same shape. Seller site seems to have lots of questions (questions marks in listing) but names it as A Delatte, however all other listings also seem to use the question mark in their descriptions regularly so that could be a translation or error use perhaps. Seller says 'signe' so if the question mark is an error use then potentially it could be a marked version of my box!!:
https://www.maisonrc.com/lot/109399/13849972-delatte-nancy-bonbonniereverresearch=&
Photograph here of the yellow box with it's signature. I can imagine that might be why mine is missing - washed or wiped off?
https://static3.lot-art.com/public/upl/2/DELATTE-NANCY-Bonbonniere-Verre-marbre-Lot-302-Maison-RandC-Commissaires-Priseurs-Associes_1651247110_9798.jpg
https://www.lot-art.com/auction-lots/DELATTE-NANCY-Bonbonniere-Verre-marbre-Signe-Un-leger-eclat-sous-le-couvercle-105-x-9/302-delatte_nancy-03.6.21-r_and_c
Also see another vase here in cameo but in the same colour combination - signed in cameo:
https://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/andre-delatte-nancy-cameo-glass-vase-1402-c-e064f9cb6f#
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Are there any other makers marks that you can think of that can be lost in a similar fashion? I suppose it would be possible for those that are cold painted.
Well found by the way!
John
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I don't know John. Legras are sometimes damaged and I've seen some with Robj on them that are part missing iirc. that also seem to have been done with a black pen/matt enamel. I've looked under light for remnants of a mark but there is only one faint place where it could be and that's stretching the imagination :)
I've washed the box to clean it so I can imagine over 100 years others have done the same so I guess it's possible it's been done in pen or matt enamel somehow and washed off.
I've been looking for info on this box for a long time and the only shape and colour scheme that ever matches is from Andre Delatte.
m
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And thank you for your compliment :) It came from France. I hadn't realised I've had it for ten years until I looked at that thread.
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just trying to post some more pictures - the box is very thin and light - very light. The lid is a little heavier by comparison.
By comparison the Pāte de Verre head I own is a solid 3d piece and is very heavy.
I've still no idea what technique was used to make the box but in trying to find out I came across this fascinating link to the making of thin Pāte de Verre.
This is an absolutely amazing film covering the design, mold making and then finally the making of the bowls by Shin-ichi Higuchi:
Eggshell Thin Pāte de verre with Shin-ichi Higuchi | Master Class Series, Volume X
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PCYu7m1qM9k
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Signed Delatte match to shape, decor and size - I'd already linked this above but it is exactly the same size. I think this is a match and that my box is by Delatte.
https://drouot.com/fr/l/15090457--delatte-nancy-bonbonniere-ver
https://www.gazette-drouot.com/lots/15090457-delatte-nancy--bonbonniere--verre---
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Are there any other makers marks that you can think of that can be lost in a similar fashion? I suppose it would be possible for those that are cold painted.
Well found by the way!
John
close up example here:
https://www.bibelotandco.fr/delatte-nancy-coupe-en-pate-de-verre-monture-en-fer-forge-art-deco-signe-1930-50470
However another piece here in similar technique but bowl shape - also signed in pen 'Lorrain'
https://picclick.fr/Coupe-Art-Deco-En-Pate-De-Verre-Marmoreen-155659836840.html#&gid=1&pid=2
and I think I can see the remnants of a signature on this piece also 'Lorrain' I think
https://picclick.fr/Petite-Coupe-Art-d%C3%A9co-P%C3%A2te-de-verre-St-155744080244.html#&gid=1&pid=12
Info about the 'Lorraine' mark here I think?
https://leverreetlecristal.wordpress.com/tag/lorrain/
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This article (I don't know the authenticity of the writer) mentions that the signatures on some items has disappeared over time because it was done in enamel (I presume cold painted ?)
https://leverreetlecristal.wordpress.com/2014/01/22/andre-delatte-1887-1953-et-ses-galinettes-france/
This may be true and I don't know what they were signed with however I do have a few pieces from the period 1930s with the black schwarzelot type enamel used on them and having just checked them that doesn't seem to me as though it would come off, even the signatures although I have seen signatures chipped. So perhaps they used something else to sign ADelatte Nancy? and perhaps also the Lorrain signatures which also look a bit watery for want of a better description?
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I have something similar to this and having looked carefully at it, it doesn't seem to me to be the kind of thing that would rub off is what I mean.
https://www.proantic.com/en/1041884-soliflorevaseenamelledperfumebottlesignedhenriquenvil.html#
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This article (I don't know the authenticity of the writer) mentions that the signatures on some items has disappeared over time because it was done in enamel (I presume cold painted ?)
https://leverreetlecristal.wordpress.com/2014/01/22/andre-delatte-1887-1953-et-ses-galinettes-france/
This may be true and I don't know what they were signed with however I do have a few pieces from the period 1930s with the black schwarzelot type enamel used on them and having just checked them that doesn't seem to me as though it would come off, even the signatures although I have seen signatures chipped. So perhaps they used something else to sign ADelatte Nancy? and perhaps also the Lorrain signatures which also look a bit watery for want of a better description?
Correction to what I wrote above - I've just checked another one of my other pieces by Henri Quenvil and the signature is indeed rubbed off in the middle portion. It's v good quality and fired enamel decoration on the vase and no chance of that rubbing off but the signature is, leaving the start and the end of the sig but rubbed in the middle.
So it seems that is the case.