Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: suzygpr on April 23, 2023, 02:49:33 PM
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This is a heavy lump, not signed, still has some sand adhered to the back. Suggestions on ID or how to clean it up would be most welcome. Main body is clear, a few bubbles, back has the moulding and decoration. Sides are lightly textured plus a couple of creases in the glass. I can take more pics if needed.
31cm high, 8.5cm wide, 6cm deep.
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Hi, I think this is Dartington Innovate. Have a look at this topic: http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php?topic=52905.0
Unfortunately, I don’t think you’ll have much luck getting rid of remaining sand.
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Caithness, I believe. Sarah Peterson.
Seems related to this piece on Scotland's Glass.
https://www.scotlandsglass.co.uk/cms/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=3440&category_id=33&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=6
Sarah trained with Bertil Vallein to make sand casts. Which kind of explains their quality a bit, along with her innate talent.
Please, please do not try to fiddle with it or "clean" it up beyond what you can get off with biological washing liquid and a soft toothbrush. ;D
Dartington took over Caithness, but now seem to be based in Crieff in the Caithness Visitor Centre.
It is Sarah herself who makes the sand casts. I don't know why there would be one she hasn't signed, unless there is some sort of miniscule flaw rendering it a second. She is the artist, designer and maker holding everything together, as far as I know.
The kind of folded over double construction of the layers of glass in the body is the same as the sand cast I have. I really don't think it's a crease, it's part of the construction.
As are the few bits of sand left stuck to the bottom. :)
I did say something about Sarah P in the thread ekimp posted.
To my knowledge, she is the only person who makes the sand casts. They are one-off, artist made pieces, every single one unique because of short runs and individual variation. They are not part of the general runs of "bread and butter" pieces all the makers can produce.
I was lucky enough to meet the Caithness engraver, Bruce Walker in Kirriemuir a few years ago and we had a lovely long chat about Sarah P. He told me a good bit about her, which is what I have repeated here.
His admiration for her and her work was palpable, and I hope he enjoyed me being a rapt audience, eager to hear all he could tell me. 8)
Some casts may have been sold under the Innovate name, but they were not made in China. :)
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Some casts may have been sold under the Innovate name, but they were not made in China. :)
Reply 7 on my link, from heartofsklo, has a quote from correspondence with Dartington where Dartington themselves say they were designed by Sarah Peterson but made for them in China. I understood it was later that Sarah Peterson moved back to Scotland and designed and produced similar designs herself (rather than made in China) ???
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This is where I get very muddled. Bruce told me that only Sarah could make them. (well enough)
But the one in question in the other thread was a smaller triangular one.
I don't know it's date.
I don't know the dates when Sarah was training with Vallein.
I know she took over at Caithness while she was still fairly young and I know Caithness were struggling. She had kind of progressed rapidly, because of her talent and skills and she was basically left with the job of saving the company.
I don't know when Dartington bought Caithness in relation to all that. But I suspect it was all overlapping or very close.
So I am wondering if casts like that were made before her rise, then she took over and made the superior pieces after her time with Vallein?
Unfortunately, we cannot get our mitts on either bit to compare quality properly.
The triangular ones have been on the shop shelves in Crieff when I have visited, but it is possibly 5 years since I've been and I wasn't paying too much attention to those casts, I was eyeing up her series of casts depicting African animal scenes. ;D
I will do some more digging and see what my various books say.
I was paying a great deal of attention to everything Bruce Walker told me, he was there and his admiration for Sarah was something to behold on its own. :)
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Thank you so much for such a wealth of info. Seems certain to be by Sarah Peterson. There's a sold piece called Blue Door that's the same shape, different design. Another rectangular one called Flower Tower that is close in size. The texturing to the sides is the same, and the way the decoration applied. Fabulous! Glad no-one else on ebay fancied it, got it for a snip, though the postage added a fair bit - it's weighs 2.8kg.
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"Flower Tower" is the one depicted as being Sarah P on Scotland's Glass.
And the fold at the side of yours is exactly like the one on my cast.
Which was bought new, paying the full price, in Crieff.
It's the closest thing I have to a Vallein sand cast boat. ::)
I am worried about Dartington saying there were made in China. Again, it's dates I'm really unsure about.
It's only fairly recently clear glass of any good colour came from there. If they were making the casts, they'd have had to bring in folk to train the workers and get hold of good quality cullet.
Polish workers were sent to China to do training and the quality of work has improved considerably, but I am unaware if sand casting is one of the skills included.
Is it possible Dartington were wrong about the sand casts, and had just assumed they were made in China because of the Innovate marketing label?
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Would Dartington market something that was handmade in the U.K. in the same range that otherwise comprised lower quality Chinese stuff? They say Sarah Peterson designed and developed the [Dartington] sand cast range while based at Dartington - nothing about making them (until she moved back to Scotland).
A good buy then Suzygpr, lucky they must have wrapped it properly!
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I really don't know. I am very confused by it all.
It's the marketing of the quality casts (wherever they were made) under the low quality Innovate name, that is really worrying me.
I have a very large Innovate piece and it is really rather badly made. That it is Chinese is kind of screamingly obvious. The pontil scar is not shiny but more satinated and there is a satinated ring around the base. It is brightly coloured green with big black fingery bits and ovals inbetween. the decor is all higgldepiggledy and squint. On top of that, there is a sort of brittle and light feel to the metal itself. It isn't as heavy as it should be and it gives a kind of discordant ting when tapped.
It does not ring nicely.
I feel a bit silly being so scathing about the low quality of the work - I can't even draw an acceptable looking smiley face myself. But it looks like something I might have tried to make.
While the casts have everything right about them to look at and and to feel. :)
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Perhaps it's a door like this one?
http://www.strathearn-gallery.com/artists/122/1396/sarah-peterson-blue-door
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That is a newer piece. One which I think really shows the Vallein input. ;D
The Strathearn Gallery which sold it, is just up the road from the Caithness Visitor Centre in the same village.
At the visitor centre, they do have an archive of old stock which they bring out and put on sale in limited amounts. It tends to be the rather more expensive serious limited edition works.
I have been studying the wording of the email from Dartington posted by Heart of Sklo.
This is it, for reference.
"The piece below is actually from Dartington Crystal, and sold under the now discontinued 'Innovate' range, which was manufactured in China and then imported to the UK. Sarah Peterson, who designs the Sandcast ranges was, at the time, employed and based at Dartington Crystal and developed this range, hence the similarity to the Caithness sandcasts which we now sell. Dartington bought Caithness in 2006, and it was at this point that Sarah moved back up to Scotland and started to manufacturer the items in their current form."
It is quite feasible from that wording, that they were only referring to the Innovate range which was made in China and then imported. Not the piece itself.
And if Sarah P was working at Dartington she could have made them there. It does say the piece is from Dartington Crystal AND sold under thae innovate name.
It's not actually clear.
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Clearly a lady of many talents.
https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/local-news/perth-designer-set-tv-upcycling-11153446
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I'll pop SP an email, hopefully we'll get a more definite answer on when and where the sandcasts were made.
Thanks for the article above, a quick google of Sarah's Attic found the website :)
https://www.sarahpetersondesign.com/
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Sarah's talent and artistry are not under question, but it's a bit disturbing seeing her embarking on another career away from glass.
What are the implications for Caithness if she's not there? ???
She's able to design and produce the high end work herself, but she can design really effective and good simpler things that everybody can make for the bread and butter stuff.
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I've had info back on the obelisk. Design is by Sarah Peterson, the piece was made in China. I am assuming from the info from Sue that this would have been under the Dartington Innovate name in the early 2000's.
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I want to know now, if they had special arrangements as to how the casts were to be produced and with better quality cullet than is normally found in work from there. My big Innovate vase is very poor quality work.
China is very big and we really don't know much about who is doing what where.
I am very surprised. But it is good to find out what really did happen in the end. :)
I do apologise for my suspicions. :-[
The difference in quality between the casts and my Innovate vase was something I found very concerning. ::)
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That comment from Dartington could be interpreted in different ways so it’s good to get it confirmed. Nice of Sarah to reply so soon. The obelisk reminded me of Troika pottery.
….so does this topic belong in British glass or Chinese glass? ;D
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;D I refuse to speculate.
I have done more than enough of that here already. ;)