Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: cagney on October 29, 2023, 09:08:48 PM
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Most of the pattern is polished, except the flower petals and punties [circles] on the neck and some of the smaller leafs on the vine along the shoulder are semi polished to a soft satin.
Possibly the larger aspects done with a stone wheel? Cutting on the handle is a series of opposing punties ending with a single one at top and bottom.
Not typical American treatment, somewhat understated which makes me think English. Opinions very much welcomed.
Lead glass. Almost 20cm to top of handle.
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Cagney sorry you've not had a reply to this.
I'll dig out the Charles Hajdamach book later to see if there's anything similar.
It looks sort of 50s to me?
In the meantime have you looked at the glass replacements site? I can't remember what it's called but it's often suggested on here for table glass/clear glass replacements.
m
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I never looked at it in that way [later- 50s]. I guess I was a bit taken with what I think are old school attributes of the blown blank, mostly the wide generous lip and the pointed back where the handle attaches.
Now that I think about it the engraving could certainly pass for 1950s, as well as the thinness of the blank. I have Hajdamachs book didn't see anything similar. Thanks for your input m .
I still do think it more English than not.
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Yes the shape might be a bit deceptive is what I was thinking. It was more the engraving I was looking at, thinking it looked the kind of thing that was done in the 50s perhaps. On an older fashioned shape if you see what I mean.
m
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I will search a wider date line. See what comes up. I should remember to take the latest attribute first and start from there. Thanks for the hint m. .
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I know your jug is not fuchsia pattern but it vaguely reminded me of this type of thing:
https://brierleyhillcrystal.co.uk/cart/range/pattern/Fuchsia
I wonder if it might have been a Royal Brierley (Stevens and Williams) pattern perhaps?
m
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Seems I may have been way off the mark from the beginning.
After thumbing through the book " THE COMPLETE CUT & ENGRAVED GLASS OF CORNING" by Estelle Sinclair Farrar and Jane Shadel Spillman, the pitcher relates favorably to a late version of T.G. Hawkes
GRAVIC line. Some relevant excerpts from the book: " the Gravic designs are usually fruits and flowers, which were copper-wheel engraved in the beginning and were later stone-engraved, as that was a less expensive process. The engraved flowers usually had mitre- cut leaves and stems". Concerning their wares from the 1920s another relevant quote from the book: "Engraved wares of the same period are usually simple and make much use of stone-wheel work and gang cutting. The designs introduced in this period stayed in the Hawkes line until the end. With few exceptions they are lighter in weight and are simpler compared with pre-World War I patterns".
For an example in the Corning Museum: https:/www.cmog.org/artwork/goblet-629 (http://https:/www.cmog.org/artwork/goblet-629)
[crappy photos, but do click on the related items for other examples. Photos in the book are excellent and show many of the pieces at CMOG.]
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https://www.cmog.org/artwork/goblet-629 (https://www.cmog.org/artwork/goblet-629). REVISED LINK
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I find the Corning site really irritating at the mo - however mostly if I cut and copy the item into a word doc they seem to be high res and detail can be seen quite well.
Is this pitcher a similar line to the Corning linked item?
https://www.replacements.com/crystal-hawkes-satin-iris-52-oz-pitcher/p/111299911
So do you think it might be a Hawkes product? Did Hawkes not always mark their items?
Looking at the Replacements site and wow! you could be here all week trying to find a pattern match.
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Yes, the pitcher in your link is the same pattern and treatment as the Corning piece. If my pitcher is not a Hawkes product I think it most likely a corning product. Corning, N.Y. seems to have been a hot bed of glass cutting/engraving in the first half of the 20th c. Many companies large and small as well as many independent cutters/engravers working from home. These independents would do work for the established companies, fulfill individual orders privately and sometimes help each other fulfill large orders.
T.G. Hawkes & Co. being somewhat akin to the independents in that they did not make glass but bought blanks from various makers throughout their history. Many entries in the 1920s catalog of "Satin Engraved". Certainly, the intent was to mark every piece before it left the premises.
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Thank you for your detailed reply. I had not realised T. G. Hawkes bought in blanks and cut and decorated them. That's interesting.
Likewise the info that different independents were helping each other fulfil contracts to supply/decorate. Presumably that is a minefield right there really in terms of ever finding out who made the blank (did some of Hawkes blanks come from the UK or VSL for example or were they produced in the States do you know? ) and who decorated it.
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The list of blank suppliers to Hawkes over the years reads as follows:
Corning Glass Works , C. Dorflinger & Sons, Steuben Glass Works, H.P. Sinclaire & Co, Tiffin Glass Co., Baccarat, Val St. Lambert, Union glass Co., Libbey Glass Co., Pairpoint Corp., H.C. Fry Glass Co., Heisey Glass Co., Duncan & Miller Glass Co.
It is stated in the book that between 1900 and 1905 it broke down like this :20% from Europe, 5% Union Glass Co., a few cream and sugar sets from Pairpoint, 3-4% Libbey, 3-4% Fry, 30-35% each from Corning Glass Works and Dorflinger.
In 1912 they started their own silver mounting arm and in the late 1920s had their decorating dept. to do enameling and gilt work.
Testimony given by Mr. Hawkes in a 1902 suit between Corning glass Works and Corning Cut Glass Co. he says he tried Baccarat, Val St. Lambert, Webb, Stevens & Williams, and F. & C.Osler of Birmingham, and found F. & C. Osler the best of these but no better than Corning Glass Works.
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After looking at an awful lot of Hawkes engraving I don't think the pitcher is up to their standards. The best I can say at this point is " of the school of Hawkes" meaning the type of engraving and "probably Corning" as to place.
The previously mentioned book list 24 home engraving shops with most of them surviving until the 1940s, some till the late 1960s. Seems the custom was for the private entities or individuals to supply their own blanks for engraving.
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Thank you for the extra detail and information.
It's very interesting. From what I read, there has been much discussion and research about Bohemian glass in a similar vein - i.e. questions over who supplied the glass and who decorated it. Some was made and then decorated in house, some was made and supplied to companies who finished it. A lot of work and research has been done on separating the various companies out.
It seems that would be even more complex trying to work out what came from T G Hawkes and who supplied it.
m