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Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: bat20 on February 01, 2024, 01:23:28 PM

Title: Early pressed glass goblet
Post by: bat20 on February 01, 2024, 01:23:28 PM
Hi , I’ve searched the French pressed glass site (1840) without finding this particular glass and I wonder if it’s English from the same sort of period.It’s 8cm wd and 13 ht and made with a good quality metal,it’s also the first glass I’ve found with a small square polished pontil ??..It’s also a fairly weighty piece …any thoughts many thanks .
Title: Re: Early pressed glass goblet
Post by: neilh on February 01, 2024, 08:16:02 PM
I haven't seen that one before. I think it unlikely to be early English. Certainly all the early tumblers are incredibly dull variations of flutes. I would be surprised therefore if there was an outbreak of design bravery on the early goblets.
Title: Re: Early pressed glass goblet
Post by: bat20 on February 02, 2024, 08:20:12 AM
Thank you Neil , a calming steer in the right direction as usual , would you agree on the dating ?
Title: Re: Early pressed glass goblet
Post by: neilh on February 02, 2024, 09:59:29 AM
The foot and pattern are unfamiliar. The clear rim above the pattern is similar to various goblets shown in Launay Hautin (1840). I've not read anything on c1840s European pressed glass goblets but it could be from that era.
Title: Re: Early pressed glass goblet
Post by: NevB on February 02, 2024, 10:11:49 AM
There is one the same on this very long link, website not available, attribution not guaranteed.


https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=eOXZI%2f86&id=A74F4BF034626D532B9269738639DE0D17B0B374&thid=OIP.eOXZI_863bpKFDya6S4JqAHaHa&mediaurl=https%3a%2f%2fgeorgianaantiques.com%2fwp-content%2fuploads%2f2016%2f12%2f1466.jpg&cdnurl=https%3a%2f%2fth.bing.com%2fth%2fid%2fR.78e5d923ff3addba4a143c9ae92e09a8%3frik%3ddLOwFw3eOYZzaQ%26pid%3dImgRaw%26r%3d0&exph=720&expw=720&q=antique+pressed+glass+goblets&simid=608046578093155275&FORM=IRPRST&ck=4B725B91CDFABD5EAC44097CCDBE5B16&selectedIndex=148&itb=0&ajaxhist=0&ajaxserp=0
Title: Re: Early pressed glass goblet
Post by: bat20 on February 02, 2024, 03:13:00 PM
Thanks Nev,I’m inclined to agree with Neil on this one and look across the channel.I guess starting from the earliest date it could be. It’s heavy ,leaded and a bright metal with a foot wider than the rim , so lots to be getting on with .
Title: Re: Early pressed glass goblet
Post by: flying free on February 02, 2024, 09:36:42 PM
Caveat that I know absolutely nothing about this kind of glass, but just musing is it possible it could be Belgian?

m
Title: Re: Early pressed glass goblet
Post by: bat20 on February 03, 2024, 04:03:29 PM
Could be m ?,it’s all a bit up in the air at the moment .I’ve read that in the UK leaded glass was used for early pressed glass and this seemed to cause problems so they used an unleaded glass,I’m trying to find information about continental pressed glass, St Louis added lead to their normal batch before the date this goblet could have possibly been made.The sand used must have been fairly free of many contaminates because it’s a bright glass.
Title: Re: Early pressed glass goblet
Post by: cagney on February 03, 2024, 05:00:26 PM
  Looks like a square extension from the mold, originally protruding more and ground down. For what purpose? From a technological point totally unnecessary. Unless, What? More questions, photo #2 Stem is that a meandering mold line or striation? I have a working theory, no answers. Follow the mold lines. Whats going on there?
  Very French in some aspects I think.
Title: Re: Early pressed glass goblet
Post by: bat20 on February 04, 2024, 05:50:12 AM
Thanks for pointing the mould lines out Cagney , i over looked that and thought they were creases , but 
no !,they are the seam lines that meander off when reaching the stem,interesting .
Title: Re: Early pressed glass goblet
Post by: bat20 on February 04, 2024, 05:54:35 AM
Do you think it may have been made in two parts ?
Title: Re: Early pressed glass goblet
Post by: cagney on February 04, 2024, 06:12:36 PM
  The possibility may exist. If the mold line from the bowl of the goblet is drastically off set from the mold line from the stem/base [a 1/4 turn or more?] maybe. If your lucky you may see some tooling marks on the upper stem. At the least I think the upper stem to bowl area put to the fire more than usual. This was a difficult area to get exposed without reheating the bowl too much. The punty rod being a conductor of heat you risk the piece dropping off the rod if heated too much at the attachment point. The punty rod attached to an extension from the base makes this task much easier. Also, a well at the base of the mold would act as a release point if the amount of glass dropped into the mold was a bit much [overfill]. In the early period of pressing "eyeballing" the right amount took some experience.

  Similar article to size and period. A quite small compote [13cm dia.X 10.75cm tall] made in a more conventional manner. Two separate pressed pieces attached with a wafer, which was then tooled [shaped]. an applied and shaped ring on the stem. Rough snapped pontil on base. Lead glass, probably Belgian. Bowl with a noticeable overfill.
Title: Re: Early pressed glass goblet
Post by: bat20 on February 04, 2024, 09:14:26 PM
Very interesting ,thanks for the info .It has got a slight lean ?The rim seems well worked and flattish but not sharp and a bit bumpy if you run your thumb and fore finger around it .I’m really not sure but I’m wondering if this could be an example of French press moulding a few years before 1840 ? Maybe feeling their way with the process ??
Title: Re: Early pressed glass goblet
Post by: cagney on February 05, 2024, 01:07:06 AM
   I have not seen this concept  [extension] before. The theory is the only technical reason I could think of. Seems to be an outlier of sorts. Other examples would be incredibly informative I think. The possibility of other pieces from the same mold intriguing. On that day was the grinder/polisher a bit lazy? Are other examples from the same mold out there with conventional polished pontils i.e. the extension ground further Into the base. As usual more questions than answers.
Title: Re: Early pressed glass goblet
Post by: Ekimp on February 05, 2024, 09:56:33 AM
On that day was the grinder/polisher a bit lazy? Are other examples from the same mold out there with conventional polished pontils i.e. the extension ground further Into the base.

If they had ground away the square any further, they would have obliterated the impressed pattern. I think you can already see where the tool used to grind the square has started to grind away the tops of the surrounding pattern. There would be no point in having the impressed pattern on the bottom if it was to be ground away.
Title: Re: Early pressed glass goblet
Post by: flying free on February 06, 2024, 08:32:25 AM
The pattern on it reminds me of some tumblers I've seen attributed to Val St Lambert hence my question.  However on a quick search (not in depth admittedly) I couldn't see anything else to compare.

Title: Re: Early pressed glass goblet
Post by: bat20 on February 06, 2024, 11:17:19 AM
I thought I’d put up a few more images ,it looks to me the base isn’t central even taking into account the swirls .