Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: essi on May 27, 2024, 07:18:04 PM
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Not sure what to make of this glass disc.
After a good look around the net i cant see anything close.
First thought was paperweight ?
Then linen smoother then maybe a muller for grinding solid paint.
The number on the base is a puzzle as well.
Any help gratefully appreciated.
It is 103mm in diameter and 51mm high.
Tim
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:-[ could be major howler from me . looking more closely at the base and sides, that could be a very thick black glaze on a pottery body!
Sorry about that folks.
I would still be interested as to it's purpose but maybe put on the right forum :)
Tim
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My guess would be it's a lid, possibly for something like a storage/tobacco jar, numbered to identify it as is done with decanter stoppers.
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I wasn't brave enough to say that, because I couldn't see any wear around the bottom of the glaze.
It is very black and very shiney. And we all make mistakes. It's only bad when we don't find out or correct them, Tim. ;D
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Linen smoother?
John
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You tie a linen cloth around it, soak it in ink and use it to ink copper etching/ engraving plates under pressure. There should be different sizes in a set and different curvatures to allow you to press ink into the shallower engraved parts.
Or it could be a blotter.
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Thanks all for your suggestions, and your kind words Sue. I will have a look around on the net later.
Probably far to ambitious to think it could be linen smoother :) https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjQiPKJ67CGAxXrWEEAHZj4DTEQFnoECBcQAQ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.theglassmakers.co.uk%2Fmedievallinensmoothers.htm&usg=AOvVaw2XAPBxTFdYugre02WdbfQk&opi=89978449.
Tim
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I like Ivo's suggestion. If a cloth were tied around it to hold ink, or a thick bit of felt for a blotter were attached, that would have protected the glaze from damage, as well as the base.
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have a look on here - I have two of these and put them under a question about linen smoothers originally. I decided they were paperweights and possibly pottery of some sort however I still think one of mine is obsidian.
I have an antique linen smoother which is glass like MoL 5500 here:
http://www.theglassmakers.co.uk/pdffiles/linensmoothers.pdf
So I attempted to use these two to see whether I thought they could smooth linen( actually ribbon smoothers were also used ) and decided they were the wrong shape.
I am very interested in Ivo's suggestion however I have two and the base of them is completely and utterly flat - hence me thinking they were paperweights not for smoothing anything.
I also don't know if they are pottery or glass. I 'll try and find my thread on it.
Here's the thread where I've shown mine - I have two now:
https://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,63636.msg356979.html#msg356979
I've not noted it on that thread, but I'm pretty sure I came down on thinking they were paperweights via some research somewhere :-\
I do think at least one of the two I have could be obsidian. It is extremely heavy like cast iron. Is yours heavy?
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I wonder how long the gilding would have lasted if these were used to do physical work like rubbing linen, grinding paint or applying ink? I think it would have rubbed off quite quickly from all the heavy handling, so they are probably just paperweights.
The concentric rings on the base of these items looks like they have been machined in some way on a lathe. Either that or they are mould marks from where the mould had been machined on a lathe, but I don’t think they are moulded. Flying Free’s example looks to have a small raised dimple in centre of the base which would be caused by the lathe tool not being set properly to the centre height of the lathe.
I don’t know too much about pottery but if you fire clay as thick as these, does it not have a tendency to explode as the moisture can’t escape from the middle? If these are pottery and the base isn’t glazed, they should be porous?
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Could it be made like this vase?
I bought this thinking it was glass but it has a high fired gloss black glazed terracotta body, extremely hard wearing, and heavy.
Makers mark on bottom, I read somewhere that it was specifically patented to look like glass but couldn't find out much about Guest Brothers.
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according to a snippet I've come across Guest Brothers was an etching shop set up in c.1862 in Brettell Lane by Henry Gethin Richardson (glass industry?) and T Guest. They'd left a set up they'd had with John and Joseph Northwood (Glass industry?) started in 1861.
Page 168 - Art Nouveau to (Victor Arwas) - I think I have this book somewhere so will have a search to see what the entire quote is later.
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Thanks again for all the extra input.
MHT your vase with some sort of patented process looks very interesting.
M, you have really been down this path before.
The old posts were very interesting and it seems you have an identical match to mine.
yours also has the 161 mark on the base.
My weight weighs 530 grams.
I have seen the process of someone using a lathe to make the bottom of an ice curl flat. maybe that is the process which has made the lines on the base of this weight?
Hopefully some more information may come to light.
Tim
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I'll weigh mine if I can find my scales that vaguely work - to compare. Although if yours also has 161 on they may have originated from the same place maybe?
I seem to remember finding a malachite version but the same shape that was a paperweight, so perhaps that's why I came down on thinking they were paperweights?
Also wondering ... if the one I found was malachite then maybe these were a fashionable shape made from some kind of granite/stone (obsidian??) - i.e. perhaps this was a carved and polished stone 'thing' of the time?
oh - There's a small part view of the malachite one here next to one like ours - unfortunately the listing is old and I can't bring up the complete photos of the listing:
https://picclick.co.uk/RARE-Antique-19th-Century-Malachite-Paperweight-%93-French-253559654507.html
Hence me assuming they must have been paperweights I think.
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When Nev said it could be a lid i could not quite see that because my item had no downward lip like a tea pot lid to keep it in place.
Look at the shape of MHT's vase at the top and maybe my item does become a lid?.
Vase or container?
MHT, do you still have the item?, might be interesting to measure the diameter of the opening at the top.
Just a thought.
Tim
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I honestly don't think they are lids - but I could be wrong of course. And I think they'd just slide off the top of anything unless it had an upright lip to the rim indented for a lid to sit into. I don't think they are lids really.
Here's another example of a green one - listed by Xupes as 'malachite enamelled pottery' but I don't know if that description is correct:
https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/402368547928618551/
Malachite is extremely difficult to research imho. I have a great love of antique malachite (too expensive for me to buy though). I have a malachite box however, although I think it's at least vintage if not antique, I've found it really hard to research it. I'm sure it's not recent but dating and researching it has been impossible.
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Forgot to mention the vase was 8.5" (22cm) high. Sorry, sold it last year, don't think it ever would have had a lid.
It was listed as a glass vase when I bought it, I can see why, it did look like glass.
Mike
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I think the Guest Brothers mark on the vase might relate to the etched decoration on that vase. So Guest Brothers perhaps a red herring for our paperweights I think?
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But this item a jug selling on ebay might be interesting to compare?
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/254211123721?chn=ps&_ul=GB&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=710-134428-41853-0&mkcid=2&mkscid=101&itemid=254211123721&targetid=1405537545098&device=c&mktype=pla&googleloc=9180613&poi=&campaignid=17218284410&mkgroupid=142217514411&rlsatarget=pla-1405537545098&abcId=9300867&merchantid=119407824&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjwx-CyBhAqEiwAeOcTdYg3zLxulEryLsZPmrq5Z4nNEf-gKIesQBi8NufaptAbz-grt-xcIRoCaPEQAvD_BwE
I don't know if that would be classed as Jackfield but anyway ...
here is a description of Jackfield
https://www.floridamuseum.ufl.edu/typeceramics/type/jackfield-type-ware/#:~:text=Jackfield%20production%20is%20historically%20associated,was%20from%20about%201740%2D1760.
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This one is a similar shape to ours - white - dates to c.1914 I think as Geo. S Smith & Co Gresham House were in Lloyds Register for 1914.
https://www.theantiquekitchen.co.uk/en-GB/furniture-miscellaneous/rare-edwardian-good-size-white-ironstone-paperweight/prod_17081
It's listed as a paperweight but no reference source for it being a paperweight. However it appears to be advertising the company and that's probably not likely if it was a lid?