Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: Keith Mick on August 11, 2024, 03:57:43 PM
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Hi, can anyone steer me in the right direction on an identification for this glass. Found at a car boot it has a cut and engraved ogee bowl which sits on a collar above an air twist stem. I think it's probably 20th century but so far have failed to find a similar item. It's lead crystal with a nice ping and stands approx 13cm tall.
Any help would be appreciated,
Cheers
Keith
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sorry, absolutely not a clue as to maker .......... what sort of finish is there in the pontil area, and is there wear?
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It might be difficult to pin down a maker but it reminds me of ones by John Walsh Walsh which often had a very difficult to see etched mark.
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always possible, of course, but have some memory that when engraving vine leaves, Walsh had a very distinctive way of engraving the leaf, such that the central areas appeared pale. Perhaps go back on the Board's archive and look at some of the Walsh 'grape and vine' engraving. Agree, their backstamp was always a pita to locate, and almost invisible at times.
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I have had sets of their glasses where some were marked and others not. In my experience pretty unusual to find anything Walsh made marked.
John
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The Walsh mark is incredibly hard to spot and gets worn away with wear and tear on the base of some pieces I think. I have also had pieces marked and unmarked.
As Paul says, Walsh polished the inside of their vine leaves in a patch on the pieces I have (but I suppose that might not be the case on all - I really don't know).
That airtwist stem is something else though. Beautifully done. I have no idea on who might have made it. The only think I can of as some input, though my first thought wouldn't have been them because of the engraving, is Rheinische Glashutten as they are the only maker I have seen those complex airtwists from - apart from pieces I've seen listed as Georgian glass.
Did Stuart do anything like those stems does anyone know? I think I've seen Stuart bonnet shaped glasses with honeycomb cutting.
Or maybe Dutch?
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If it is modern, does the engraving replicate some kind of Jacobite symbols? The design and subjects remind me of that but to be honest I don't know anything about them or antique v modern glasses.
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In Eric Reynolds book there are some later glasses with air twist stems although not quite like this one. There doesn't appear to be anything the same in the pattern books but they aren't easy to see. I have several Walsh pieces and they are all marked, the Walsh mark wasn't introduced until 1926. The cut glass bowl with etched decoration above are typical Walsh. The etched design is unusual as it comprises a variant of the fruiting vine pattern, also leaves and flowers and what looks like oak leaves and flowers round the rim. My thoughts would be early 20thC., though it's hard to see how much wear there is. I wouldn't discount it being Bohemian/German.
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That is not a typical grape and vine motif, if that is what it is. Seems odd then to have oak leaves above, or oak leaves and flower, eek this is above my pay grade!
Some Rheinische Glashutten, the image is not great but the set is marked:
https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/set-air-twist-roemers-koln-ehrenfeld-20493414
I suspect this one is from the same maker:
https://www.picclickimg.com/YQ4AAOSwaPNmp1DR/Antique-St-Louis-19th-Century-Air-Twist-Stem.webp
described as St Louis, which is also the attribution I gave my green glass in this topic a while back:
https://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,68339.0.html
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I have a whole set of Rheinische Glashutten Wilhem glasses with the airtwist stem. They are impeccably made.
Mine are a different colour to these - more green:
https://www.mehlis.eu/de/catalogs/8316/item/3403/
My knowledge is extremely limited but I just can't reconcile the engraving. The honeycomb cutting I think I have seen on German or Bohemian glasses and that airtwist from Rheinische Glashutten but the engraving and shape wouldn't make me think either.
As I say, my knowledge is very limited.
Is there any wear on the foot of the glass? Could you upload a picture of it against a white background so we can see the colour of the glass and how clear it is please?
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There is some interesting information on this listing regarding replicas being made for Hill Ouston:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/364593977057?chn=ps&_ul=GB&_trkparms=ispr%3D1&amdata=enc%3A1gZXqWIMLSI2H2AJwOHa0iQ27&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=710-134428-41853-0&mkcid=2&mkscid=101&itemid=364593977057&targetid=1647205088600&device=c&mktype=pla&googleloc=9045660&poi=&campaignid=17206177401&mkgroupid=136851690655&rlsatarget=pla-1647205088600&abcId=9300866&merchantid=232688466&gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjwiOy1BhDCARIsADGvQnAagSSYVbmXwFPa2niA38sWsJGn6QEb0yERx7RgUtexAQKKA8MbrrsaApevEALw_wcB
This is the kind of glass I was thinking of - that the OPs might be a homage to perhaps?
https://www.exhibitantiques.com/item/2047/exhibitantiques/Rare-Large-Jacobite-Acrostic-Engraved-Air-Twist-Wine-Glass-Goblet-c1750.html
Walsh Walsh fruiting vine wine glasses for comparison of honeycomb cutting attached. It's difficult to see on the original posters photographs but perhaps on a white background a comparison could be made.
I have a tumbler as well and the honeycomb pattern is exactly the same as is the fruiting vine engraving.
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Hi everyone. Thanks for the replies. I did think Walsh when I first started researching but all the glasses with this type of bowl I've come across by them seem to have more elongated bowls. I've looked for makers marks but found nothing. Both the cutting and engraving are well executed, the whole seems a quality piece made with clear lead crystal. The foot is conical and is finished slightly concave beneath the stem but its not a ground and polished out pontil.
There is some wear present but not enough I think to make it 19th Century or early 20th. Although it may have sat unused at the back of a cupboard for the last 70 years!
The stem is what really intrigues me, if you could cut and paste it to an18th Century bowl and foot it would look perfect! Most modern air twists have a small number of strands coiled around the centre of the stem.
I enjoy hunting for such treasures but it can be frustrating trying to Id them. And I never even thought to ask the lady who sold it to me if she knew any thing about it. We live and learn, well some times!
Cheers all for suggestions, will keep digging,
Keith
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If it's got a raised foot it may only have wear on a very small ring of contact area, I do think it has got some age. This site's shop section is always worth a look.
https://scottishantiques.com/shop/
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Have finally gotten around to uploading more pics. Trying to capture the faceting on the bowl and the engraved pattern is not easy!
Keith