Glass Message Board
Glass Discussion & Research. NO IDENTIFICATION REQUESTS here please. => Murano & Italy Glass => Topic started by: ginfor on September 27, 2006, 09:15:10 PM
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From the information I have so far, the design on this bowl is Venini, but this is a copy, possibly by AVEM. This label, though fairly generic in design, is believed to be an AVEM label, but can anybody confirm that? Thanks.
Forrest
http://home.earthlink.net/~fvposton/aa.murvase.jpg
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Forrest:
This does not look like an AVEM piece to me. As you said I agree it is a copy of the Venini handkerchief bowls.
Howard
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Copying a Venini design is not likely to result in an AVEM look, unless of course they went so far as to do it in tutti frutti, which would rather overwhelm the sense of it being a Venini design. So unless AVEM was far more limited in production, design, and ability than I think, saying it doesn't look like AVEM work isn't really to the point. After all, not every Picasso looks like a Picasso.
Forrest
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This looks for all the world to me like a Venini piece and the label looks like an export label rather than a manufacturers one. Are you quite sure there is no acid etched factory stamp anywhere on this? I've had some particularly on white based backgrouds that are very tricky to find and on one particular piece cannot be seen at all in most light and then some days it's clear as a bell.
The base looks typically Venini with the ground out pontil and I've a signed Venini in the same colour combination in my collection which is the twin of yours.
I'm pretty certain it's not Avem or Fratelli Toso and could well have had an accompanying Venini label which has become detached over the years.
Paul
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I've a friend who has dealt with good quality Murano for some time (still learning), and she is certain that this is an export label used by AVEM. Now, in some cases several companies used the same export labels while other export labels seem to be tied to one company. Still trying to confirm things there.
I think we're all agreed that the design is Venini, but from there?
Any chance you could post pics of your Venini version and the signature, or e-mail them to me at ginfor@earthlink.net ?
Forrest
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I can't post a piccy at present as we are having the house renovated so all the more fragile glass has all been crated up and is in the loft until the chaos ends, but when "normality" returns hopefully in around 3 weeks, I'll play catch up then.
The most commonly used exporter label on AVEM pieces was the turquoise MADE IN ITALY on a silver background in circular format,
but often an export company would be working for several of the Murano studios at the same time, hence the duplication of the companys labels.
Paul
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I have seen that label on Seguso, Barovier, and Avem pieces, so I think its just a generic export label.
Javier
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What do you reckon on this fazoletto Javier the base looks certain Venini to me.
Paul
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Hi Paul,
Has the looks of a Venini piece, but if its unsigned and only with that label, I would suggest Fratelli Toso. I had a similar one with the same label, with Yellow inside, and I really thought it was Toso. I have another cased Venini vase, and the making/feel looked a bit off from a Venini piece to me. I sold it as Fratelli Toso.
Javier
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Yes it is difficult without being able to feel a piece, I know I rely more on if a piece feels right than anything else, especially with my eyesight getting so bad. Must be getting old!!
Paul
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Did Venini sign EVERY bowl and vase with acid etched signature? More than 50%? More than 90%? What are the most common Venini designs that are found without signatures (or with paper label only)? I know unsigned Venini Bianconi figurines are known to exist (I own one).
Thanks,
Charles.
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OK Charles thorny topic and I'm sure there will be those that will disagree with me, but here's my take on Venini signatures in the post-war period which is where my main interest lies.
I would say at least 90% of the decorative wear carries a signature in some form. Either the circular acid etched mark, the 3 lined Venini, Murano Italia acid mark though earlier pieces still have the 2 lined version of this mark. More recent items tend to carry a diamond point Venini, Italia, often with a year following and in the case of some of the re-issues of earlier pieces the designers name "Bianconi" etc is often included also. If this sounds a little hit and miss then in my experience it often is. For example I had a matched pair of James Carpenter "Calabash" vases, one signed with the 3 line acid mark, the other with no markings at all.
As if this isn't a big enough minefield commissions were also undertaken for sets of table wear, the most common being in zanfirico canework and these often consisted of upwards of a hundred pieces and the vast majority of these were never signed.
And then there's Venini lighting and though some of these were signed with the previously mentioned marks, the majority only carried paper labels.
As I say thats my take on things, be interesting to hear what others think.
Paul
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I've only seen that yellow label on AVEM pieces, but of course I haven't seen everything. And I've never seen a Venini piece with this kind of generic import label.
Forrest's vase doesn't look like Venini to me. There's something odd about the way the bottom hits the table. The polished pontil and flattened base are typical of Venini, on the other hand.
Don't assume that AVEM didn't make direct copies of other factory's work. I have had vases that most people would swear were bianca neros (half filigranas) by Dino Martens, with AVEM labels.
Laura
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Hi Laura,
I did think it was only used by Avem at first, since I only saw the label on the end-of-day pieces. Then I saw it on 2 Seguso piece, and 1 Barovier & Toso Zebratti bowl, so my early conclusion of only Avem went out the window.
Javier