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Glass Discussion & Research. NO IDENTIFICATION REQUESTS here please. => USA => Topic started by: robbo on October 25, 2006, 05:32:53 PM

Title: Carnival Footed Bowl with Cherries - ID = Dugan-Diamond Weeping Cherries
Post by: robbo on October 25, 2006, 05:32:53 PM
Hi,

I've been trying to find the maker / pattern name, without success, of this carnival bowl:

Top View (http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-3855)
Side View (http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-3856)

The cherry pattern is repeated four times. On the underneath / outside is a pattern in very low relief of stylised leaves and flowers. The foot is just clear.

Any help much appreciated!
Thanks,
robbo
Title: Carnival Footed Bowl with Cherries
Post by: Glen on October 25, 2006, 07:25:59 PM
It's a seldom seen pattern - in fact seldom seen patterns - as both the interior and exterior designs are not found very often.

The interior (top) pattern is called "Weeping Cherry" and the outside design is called "Western Daisy". The combination is quite a rare one, that I know has been found in the UK before.

The maker was Dugan-Diamond.

Hope this is what you needed.

Glen
Title: Carnival Footed Bowl with Cherries
Post by: Della on October 25, 2006, 07:50:13 PM
Oooh Robbo, you dark horse you!  :wink:  :wink:

Now who is shopping in all the right places?  :P
Title: Carnival Footed Bowl with Cherries
Post by: robbo on October 25, 2006, 09:19:20 PM
Hi Glen,
Thanks for your quick response - you're a star!
Now you've given the name, I've found a few references via Google! I just wondered is Weeping Cherry usually seen with Western Daisy?
I found this auction, which looks pretty much the same (possibly the ruffles on mine are deeper, it's difficult to tell):

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230001475976

I also wanted to ask, there are quite a few straw (?) or stress marks (?) - in the first photo you can see some of them as they are filled with muck - would this be usual?

Quote from: "Deltab"
Now who is shopping in all the right places? :P

Same as the Sarpaneva glasses 8)

robbo
Title: Carnival Footed Bowl with Cherries
Post by: DOCHOLIDAY on October 25, 2006, 10:12:36 PM
The yuck is caled straw marks. most carnival glass was packed in straw before made into a form.  It is very common in carnival glass.
Title: Carnival Footed Bowl with Cherries
Post by: josordoni on October 25, 2006, 10:52:05 PM
I always thought so called straw marks are actually stress marks caused by the cooling of the glass?
Title: Carnival Footed Bowl with Cherries
Post by: Glen on October 26, 2006, 07:28:54 AM
Shear marks - often called straw marks - have NOTHING at all to do with straw. It's a misconception and I have explained it here.

http://www.geocities.com/carni_glass_uk_2000/ShearMark.html

I'll write a fuller reply regarding the marks on the bowl, and also the pattern combination, later today. I wanted to correct the statement about straw very quickly, so I added this brief message.

Glen
Title: Carnival Footed Bowl with Cherries
Post by: robbo on October 26, 2006, 08:01:29 AM
Glen,

Thanks for the link to your article. After reading that, I'm guessing that on this piece any shear mark would be well hidden by the pattern.

Many thanks for your time.

Robbo
Title: Carnival Footed Bowl with Cherries
Post by: josordoni on October 26, 2006, 08:06:10 AM
Quote from: "Glen"
Shear marks - often called straw marks - have NOTHING at all to do with straw. It's a misconception and I have explained it here.

http://www.geocities.com/carni_glass_uk_2000/ShearMark.html

I'll write a fuller reply regarding the marks on the bowl, and also the pattern combination, later today. I wanted to correct the statement about straw very quickly, so I added this brief message.

Glen


Glen is there a difference though between marks like the one you showed and the very fine often curved ones that look like a hair has been caught on the glass and removed?
Title: Carnival Footed Bowl with Cherries
Post by: Glen on October 26, 2006, 08:24:58 AM
Yes Lynne, there's a difference. There are many different kinds of pressed glass features that result in small marks.

More later ......

Glen
Title: Carnival Footed Bowl with Cherries
Post by: josordoni on October 26, 2006, 08:57:18 AM
Quote from: "Glen"
Yes Lynne, there's a difference. There are many different kinds of pressed glass features that result in small marks.

More later ......

Glen


Sorry, didn't expect you to answer until later - go on - off you go - back to work....
Title: Carnival Footed Bowl with Cherries
Post by: Glen on October 26, 2006, 04:07:32 PM
Robbo - you asked is Weeping Cherry usually seen with Western Daisy? I have only handled a few of these bowls over the years (they are scarce) and all those I have seen have had both patterns. However, Carl Burns (Dugan researcher) has shown Western Daisy exterior bowls with no interior design. Conversely, I believe that Weeping Cherry is also known with no exterior pattern.

Now to the question of shear marks and the like. Robbo, you mentioned that the marks on your bowl might be straw marks or stress marks. The two are caused by different things.

SHEAR MARK
A shear mark/straw mark is not damage. It is a feature of pressed glass and is more correctly called a shear mark. The link I gave earlier explains how they are caused. Shear marks can be found on all kinds of pressed glass, not just Carnival, but the iridescence can cause them to be more visible, especially when they coincide with a non-patterned part of the glass.

STRESS MARK
Stress marks are different - they are classed as damage, and are in fact, cracks, fractures in the glass.

There are many other marks that are simply features of pressed glass, often caused by the glass cooling slightly as it comes into contact with the mould.

Sometimes the iridescence has little marks and crizzles. If any re-heating is done after the iridescence is applied, the iridescence will show a "stretch" effect. Sometimes, also, I have noticed small lines in the iridescence which I suspect is caused by a temperature change somewhere in the process.

I hope this goes some way to giving you an answer.

Glen
Title: Carnival Footed Bowl with Cherries
Post by: Tony H on October 26, 2006, 07:21:06 PM
robbo
Here is a link to a piece of Carnival glass with marks and crizzles which Glen discribes

http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-3869

Tony H in NZ
Title: Carnival Footed Bowl with Cherries
Post by: robbo on October 26, 2006, 09:58:03 PM
Glen - thanks again for your response and clarifying the straw/shear and stress marks issue. I think the marks on the bowl could be the mould cooling type you mention - they are generally little 'furrows' in the surface, which seem to occur around some parts of the outline of the pattern. I'll have to clean the dirt out of them! :)

Tony - good to see an example of the iridescence stretch marks - I'm now clearer on how that looks too  :D

Many thanks,

robbo
Title: Carnival Footed Bowl with Cherries
Post by: Glen on October 26, 2006, 10:13:38 PM
For an extra look at stretch iridescence on Carnival.......

http://www.geocities.com/carni_glass_uk_2000/Celeste.html

Glen
 :lol: