Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: nicola on November 14, 2006, 06:16:10 PM
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Hi Everyone,
I recently bought 'A short history of Geo. Davidson and Co Ltd' by Claude L. Fraser and was interested to read the following -
"Under Thomas Davidson's guidance and able administration the firm increased its range of products, and quite a number of specialities were being produced: such things as baskets, dogs, paperweights, piano insulators..."
I had always assumed that the Dog figures were made by Derbyshire
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320027276967
?
Do any of the pressed glass/Davidson experts here have any opinions on this, it all seems very peculiar!
Thanks
Nicola
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Hi Nicola,
That is the only reference to the fact that Davidson made dogs. They are not illustrated in any surviving catalogue or recorded in the Pricing Committee or production records.
If the dogs were made in Thomas's time then they would not carry the Lion trade mark, which means it is almost impossible to identify which dogs, if any were made by Davidson.
Regards
Chris
PS Have you seen our book Davidson Glass a history ?
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Thanks Chris! That is why I thought that it was so odd, because I would have imagined that they would have mentioned it in other places and the style of the dog paperweights are similar to that of the Lions... Although there are greyhound paperweights too aren't there? I am more of a cat person so haven't paid much attention to them before, until I read the little booklet.
I bought your book at last year's Glass Fair and it is so useful, I love it - it has been passed around all of the family and answered so many questions :)
Actually I should update my site and add it to the links etc.
Thanks again :)
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I've got a vague feeling that the word "dog" in this context might mean one of the Victorian glass oddities like, for instance, knife rests or piano feet stands. I get funny feelings sometimes, usually nonsense.
I'd forgotten that Claude Fraser had written a book. He was my boss until he died suddenly (at a point-to-point meeting).
Adam D.
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Sounds plausible to me. A bit like frogs, perhaps - anyone know why they were called that?
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Hi Adam
Wow, it is brilliant just talking to someone who has inside knowledge. I suppose that it could be a generic term for glass oddities.
There are acutally more items than I quoted, here is the whole list that he states is
"such things as baskets, dogs, paperweights, piano insulators, linings for the plating trade, candlesticks etc"
The book is very thin and is probably more of a piece of marketing rather than a history because he concentrates on what the company did for WW2 and afterwards. Also, the pieces of glass that they have photographed are things that I would not associate with Davidson and in fact look a lot like Whitefriars!
Thanks for all your help
Nicola
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A fire-dog is a rest for logs in a fireplace, so the "dog" element could well mean a support of some kind, ie.g a knife rest. Does that make sense in this context?
A frog on a uniform is a cluster of braid, as a flower frog is a cluster of holes, - googling it, it seems there is a line of thought that goes back to Japanese ikebana, where they used supports shaped as animals, and the Americans who started to import these thought they looked like frogs in the water. Seems a bit whimsical to me, but hey! who knows?
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I think that could be it then! Thanks :)
I have always been curious about frogs, although it tickles me when I see people trying to describe them on eBay - my favourite is a pen holder :D
Nicola
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Hi
Just to add a little about the Dogs , this is the opinion of one of the worlds largest collectors of these items and 2 other large collectors that it is possible to tell the maker, and this is what I was told when I recently sold a Vaseline Dog
"quote" Yes, Roy, this is a Davidson dog. I will send you a photo of the
undersides of J D and Davidson dogs side by side. The ridge around the
inside and the shape of the hole for the body cavity tell which maker is
which. The presence or absence of trenches under the front legs is not
significant. Both makers made their dogs both ways.
The picture on left is a John Derbyshire Dog and the one on the right a Davidson Dog
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y76/mhgcgolfclub/th_dogg.jpg) (http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y76/mhgcgolfclub/dogg.jpg)
I have also been told by a collector of John Derbyshire who has family connections that the Davidson Dog on the right has a stepped base on the underside
Roy mhgcgolfclub
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Hi,
As there is no documentary evidence that these where made by Davidson, then at best one can say is that they may be made by Davidson. They could have been made by a number of other manufacturers as well.
The only evidence I am aware off that Davidson made dogs is the quote from Claud Frasers 1948 booklet.
Regards
Chris
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.. is the quote from Claud Frasers 1948 booklet.
Was wondering if that was going to be mentioned, Fraser is clearly a first class source but could still be wrong. Yet it does suggest some other information being available on the subject.
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Fraser is clearly a first class source but could still be wrong. Yet it does suggest some other information being available on the subject.
I think his comment came from his nearly 50 years working and running Davidson. He may remember Davidson making dogs or alternatively remembers being told they were made in the 1880s. Also as Adam pointed out Dog could just be refering to a Victorian glass oddity.
Davidson did make a lion ornament, this is documented in the Pricing Committee records, so they could have made a dog ornament as well. But unless some documentary evidence is available, we can only say they may have been made by Davidson.
The Claude Fraser booklet also contains a typo which has been copied by many people in articles and web pages. He got the dates of the Davidson fire wrong, suggesting they factory was closed for over a year, when in fact it was closed for just 3 months.
Chris
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Hi Chris
What sort of lions did Davidson make - From what I know there is the one with straight paws which is made by Derbyshire with all the makers marks etc, the smaller ones which are attributed to Greener and another which has *crossed* paws and is smaller than the Derbyshire one - is this one a Davidson lion instead? I checked mine and he doesn't have a makers mark.
This is so exciting ;D
Nicola
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Hi Nicola,
Very good question. The only evidence that Davidson made a Lion is from the Pricing Committe records. There are no other documentary sources. So we cannot say for certain what the Lion looked like.
We have suggested that the Lion illustrated here http://www.cloudglass.com/other.htm (towards the bottom of the page) maybe made by Davidson as it appears in cloud glass. As davidson were not the only company to make cloud glass .....
Regards
Chris
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Crikey, I hadn't noticed that on your site! I had always thought that they were made by Greener because of the shocking quality. Back when I first started 10+ years ago I'd see them all the time in junk shop and rarely was there one that didn't have fins on the back etc!
Damn, scratch the theory of the crossed paws lion, I have just checked again and found a faint JD anchor on the base. Although there is a lion sitting up with a large shield isn't there which I have seen attributed to everyone under the sun, maybe he is Davidson instead. It doesn't look like Derbyshire because it has little circular bumps around the top of the base.
Or maybe there is a new lion out there!