Glass Message Board
Glass Discussion & Research. NO IDENTIFICATION REQUESTS here please. => British & Irish Glass => Topic started by: romy on January 01, 2007, 04:27:31 PM
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Hi everyone, :)
I think I have an Ebony & Gold SS005 vase (identified via Frank's excellent website, and Miller's 20th Century Glass). It looks absolutely identical (which is why I haven't posted a photo) but I wonder if it might be a fake? Or even a reject? I ask, because it has no signature whatsoever, and isn't what I'd call a perfectly-made piece of glass (a bit rough and ready at the neck). This is the first piece of Ebony & Gold I've seen in the flesh, so this might be quite normal, of course. All replies gratefully received, even those confirming my worst fears - I only paid £6 for it, and it's very attractive, so I won't be hanging myself from the nearest tree!
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Hi,
The signatures were sand-blasted and can be very faint but some inevitably slipped through blank too. No idea what Stuart policy regarding seconds though, possibly out via staff or a factory shop?
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Thanks for your reply, Frank. :)
Good news re. lack of signature, but not sure on the 'manufacturing flaws' (if that's what they are). Are you saying that the piece should be completely smooth, from base to top? Mine has what I can only call elongated vertical dents around the neck, as well as a couple of 'lumpy bits'. (Sorry to be so untechnical!) Is that normal?
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Yes smooth, top edge is cut and polished.
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Thanks, Frank. :'(
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Hi Romy,
I have owned and sold a number of these SS005 pieces over the last few years, some with etched Stuart marks some without. The signed vases seemed to be a bit more substantial, possibly a little heavier and more randomly gilded than those that had no etched mark. I currently have 2 of these unmarked randomly gilded pieces, identical in shape and size to SS005 but strangely 1 vase is not black but is purple. There must be other glass companies making vases in this design. I have only found this variation in the SS005 pattern. Very confusing.
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Oops sorry Romy forgot to add my name. ::) ???
It's Bryn (not Brian)
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Might be worth checking if IOW made these too.
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Hi all! :) Thanks for such a great response! :-*
IOW have similar looking vases (at least, I think they're IOW), but they have gold leaf applied to the surface (the Azurene range...?). Mine is definitely identical to the SS005 on Frank's website and in Millers. Bryn, it's interesting what you say re. weight; it's a lot lighter than I was expecting. (Not that I have anything to compare it with!) Can I ask, did your unsigned ones have marks around the neck? They're really bothering me. Millers reckons these vases are worth around £30, but I don't think the quality of mine is right. I'll try and take some decent photos tomorrow, so you'll hopefully have a clearer idea of what I'm talking about.
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Some photos, as promised. Hope they help, especially as it's taken me half the day to work out how to use the Glass Gallery! :-[ First two are general shots of the piece; the last two show the marks I'm fretting about.
wrong link from browser address bar: http ://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?album=10&pos=0
correct link from info below image on gallery, note the 4 digit number: http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-4456
others corrected too
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-4457
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-4458
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-4459
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-4460
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Everyone,
Can we get some more examples of this shape please? Ideally get include a picture of the base and rim.
There are other makers who used this technique another Scottish one is Tweedsmuir and those are less finely finished than the Stuart versions. I have not handled IOW Azurene yet so it would be interesting to have some detailed pictures of those too... anyone?
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Looking at this one, the rim looks fire polished, not cut and ground but I can't be certain. Certainly we need to see more examples.
The mark you refer to looks like a chip, certainly enough to get it classed as a second if considered good enough to sell! Does it have a sharp edge to the mark or any clue as to what caused it?
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Hi Y'all,
Further to my previous message on this subject I can now show some pictures of the two SS005 similar vases that I currently have in my collection. I will also show an example of an albeit different pattern Ebony & Gold vase that I recently sold on Ebay that had the Stuart etched marks. These are on TinyPic, I will transfer them over later if required.
Please note that the one vase is not purple but more of an aubergine or red wine colour. the black vase weighs 120gms and the aubergine vase 200gms. I also show the bases of the unmarked pieces. The last photo shows the marked Stuart SS007 vase.
http://i10.tinypic.com/2jetkll.jpg
http://i14.tinypic.com/4hxdezt.jpg
http://i16.tinypic.com/3ys2fyg.jpg
Hope this does not create more confusion.
Cheers,
Bryn (not Brian)
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Knowing nothing about these types of vases, I can only comment on what I see in the photos.
And to me, Romy's vase and Bryn's "aubergine" example are the same shape, with the same "lines / ripples / tooling marks" to the neck and also seem to have the same finish to the rim. Unless they were blown into mould with neck ripples, I'd say they were made by the same hand!
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The mark you refer to looks like a chip, certainly enough to get it classed as a second if considered good enough to sell! Does it have a sharp edge to the mark or any clue as to what caused it?
No sharp edges, Frank, and no chips. There are several of these elongated vertical marks (tooling, as Kev suggests) around the neck, and they do look as if they were part of the manufacturing process. The top and base are identical to Bryn's black vase, but Bryn's black looks perfect around the neck area. The aubergine does appear to have similar tooling marks, though they look quite insignificant compared to mine. But it's hard to tell from a photo.
The weight of mine is just over 130gms, heavier than Bryn's black, but height differences might account for that: the photo on Frank's site gives a height of 3.5", if memory serves, and the Millers' example is 4.25". Mine's somewhere in between.
I seem to have opened up a can of worms. Hope we can come to some conclusion!
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Well this is proving a topic of great importance. As Stuart Strathearn is not really an Ysart Glass I feel the topic belongs in the main glass forum.
So who made the aubergine?
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Just to add a little to my photo's and facts, both my vases stand at 3.75" tall.
Bryn (not Brian)