Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: Sue C on January 02, 2007, 01:36:30 PM
-
while trawling through Ebay, i came across a bowl and center figure which looks as though she is sitting on a stump praying, i have never seen this one, is it unusual, or has the picture been taken at a funny angle? item number 170065542303
-
This is a Sowerby figurine, Sue :)
Edit: I don't think it matches with the bowl, although someone more experienced might help further. Might be uranium glass.
-
They both look like uranium glass to me. I think the bowl is also Sowerby, althought it's more often seen frosted
-
You might be right, Christine. The bowl in particular looks like it's 'self-glowing' and I think the posy holder were normally like this.
Also meant to say, the figurine does looks to be the normal pose, but isn't praying, just placing an arm to protect modesty (although not very successfully!) :D
-
Yes i agree David ang Christine, the bowl dos'nt seem to fit, bit of a mis match, and an odd angle for the photo, wish i could see the bowl a little clearer, the roses look a little Macintosh'ish,will have to go on hubby's pc and use the zoom on his mouse, or get my eyes tested again ::)
Sue C x
-
Yes, they are correctly paired - and they are both Sowerby. They were shown in Sowerby's Pattern Book - number 38 (1956). The bowl was described as a "Floating Bowl" number 2565 (that didn't mean it floated....it meant that you could float flower heads inside it). The figure and plinth were part of the whole set. Cottle (Sowerby Gateshead Glass) notes that Herr Schottner (a Sudeten German) came to Sowerby's in the 1920s and was possibly responsible for designing these items.
Colours - flint, amber, blue, green, pink. - with or without sandblasting.
I have the bowl and lady in a zingy vaseline. Of interest to Carnival collectors is the fact that the bowl (which can be found both cupped up and flared out) is known in a rich blue Carnival Glass. No Carnival figure has been found. They are hard to find, and oddly turn up in the USA rather than the UK. The bowl is known as Flora to carnival collectors (it has fabulous roses moulded underneath).
The figure is also sometimes called Flora...it gets complicated (I've written it all on our second CD).
There's a story that the bowls were sold full of Cadbury's chocolates - however I did follow this up some years ago when I was researching it. Cadbury's trawled through their archive but could find no mention of it. Maybe it was Rowntrees ;)
Glen
-
Cadbury's: just a short walk for me >:D
Darn, I can't eat too much chocolate though :-\
Interesting they teamed the frosted holder with unfrosted bowl - I'll look for that in future.
-
It was probably one of those mix and match options
-
Christine — As you may know, I do not usually comment on live auctions. However your suggestion of a mix and match here is wrong. This combination of an acid-matted figurine / flower block and a clear bowl was issued by Sowerby — I have had at least two identical sets through my hands — although it is more usually found with both the figurine and bowl acid-matted.
Note also that this set is complete. There is no base ring on this bowl to lock into a plinth, indeed it would be unsafe to place it on a plinth.
The slightly cupped bowl in the same pattern was from a different mould, as Glen proved some years ago here on the first? GMB, and has a base ring, so centrepiece figurine sets including the vertically-sided or cupped bowl should really include the proper Sowerby black plinth, although it may have been issued without.
Hope that helps,
Bernard C. 8)
-
What I actually meant was that a frosted figure could be chosen with either a frosted 2565 bowl or a 2565 shiny bowl as I have seen this combination more frequently with a frosted bowl
-
http://www.pressglas-pavillon.de/tafelaufsaetze/02747.html
there is a different lady sitting in my bowl - is it a marriage please ? :-X
-
Yes, I think so. The lady is generally considered to be Czech, although I've never found a proper attribution. I have her in frosted green uranium
-
Thank you Christine, I had already assumed something like that !
Well, Dexter or anyone else here: are you going for it? It is a BuyItNow and I could be tempted to do so in order to be able to compare and look for further hidden hints ? Thank you :-[
-
No not me. You go-ahead
-
Bought in that same instance Christine ;D If Dexter or anyone else wants it, I have got no problem to give it to him - but it had to be safe in our collectors' corner I believe ;D
-
Pamela and Christine — I've often wondered whether your set, Pamela, could be a perfectly legitimate Sowerby product, as I have seen it before. I am mindful of the comments in Baker & Crowe about exclusive centrepieces being made by Jobling for Marks & Spencer, which must relate to about 1935. This is just one of several explanations for variations in design not appearing in the surviving pattern books and trade advertisements.
Another explanation is the most obvious, wear and tear or damage to the first mould, necessitating a replacement.
Bernard C. 8)
Later: Well done, Pamela. Nice buy at quite a reasonable price. :clap:
-
Thank you Bernard :-* I shall come back to this later upon receipt!
-
Bernard, another big THANK YOU for that applause :D
Always I think all of us have to grab these things from the market (as possible to their portemonnaie) as there will be no many returns!
-
You could be on the track of something there Bernard. My lady is a good colour match to a frosted butterfly candlestick, as far as I can tell - will have to look again at the weekend when I'm home in daylight. Unfortunately, I don't have a Sowerby lady to compare tree stumps with, but Pamela should be able to do that soon.
-
Christine — I am just trying to ensure that everyone keeps an open mind. That's all. My suggestions are nothing more than possibilities, and there are many others.
Like you, I look forward to Pamela's conclusions. I have never had the good fortune to compare these two figurines side by side. Will it be same mouldmaker, same glassworks but possibly different mouldmaker (Sowerby probably had two mouldmakers in the 1930s, if you go on plinth pattern numbering punch fonts), or different glassworks?
Only three days ago, I had four examples of Wood Bros unpacked and on the table together for the first time. It wasn't just the lettering, but everything else that matched perfectly. In case you were wondering, they are Lillicrap, Scheerwonder, Blackpool Tower (I've given up trying to sell it!), and the 1938 Glasgow Pavilion (not the Tower of Empire from the same set illustrated in Dodsworth BGbtW). Not just the same glassworks but the same designer and mouldmaker. There is no substitute for lining them up next to each other and handling them; photographs just don't work for this.
I can't wait for Pamela's revelations!
Bernard C. 8)
-
Hi all, Pamela and David, did they make this item in opalecent? as there seems to be one on Ebay, but they dont describe it very well, and i'm not sure :-\ i have only recently become interested in this type of glass, and would like to learn lots more, i'm off to the bookshop when i'm feeling better,
oh yes! item number 140069542935
Edited, just been back, and it may be camere flash.
They have a Bimini cocktail set also.
-
Just looks like clear frosted to me Sue :-\
I've just had a another look at my green lady and as well as colour matching a frosted Sowerby bowl I've just identified from Glen's CD, her base would appear to be identical to the one of this lovely lady on Glen's site http://www.geocities.com/carni_glass_uk_2000/AndromedaVas.JPG. Eight ribs between holes and the shadowing effect at the bottom of the holes. From the bottom to the top of a rib measures 1.5 inches ... GLEN...
-
Further to the above reply, I see that Glen also speculates, in Sowerby's Ellison Glass Works Volume 2, that my lady is Sowerby, i.e., that Sowerby made three ladies: the one known as Flora, the more common Stump lady and my brazen hussy. They are certainly all found with ribbed bases that appear very, very similar. Anyway here is my girl sitting in a Sowerby 2549 fruit bowl; she's certainly a very good colour match. Click to enlarge
(http://s20.photobucket.com/albums/b217/lustrousstone/th_IMG_0964.jpg) (http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b217/lustrousstone/IMG_0964.jpg)
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b217/lustrousstone/IMG_0963.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b217/lustrousstone/IMG_0962.jpg
So I think I was probaly wrong Pamela. Your lady and her bowl may not be a marriage
-
bowl ok, the lady arrived smashed, broken :'(
as my old Pentax doesn't work anymore I've got a new camera today and took some shots for the seller for a hopeful refund
as far as I can see on these first photos (being shocked I left the glass in the musuem) the base / flower block is NOT ribbed
more tommorrow
Anne, pleeeease may I again ask you to upload another photo for me - I promise to learn that soon, but not under these circumstances - thank you :-*
-
Oh Pamela, how awful :hug:
-
Of course, Pamela, it's done for you here: http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-4592
and how sad to see such damage to her. :cry:
:hug: to Pamela
-
Definitely a different base though ???
-
Christine and Anne thank you! It's really a shame because I had asked for double boxing ... at least a separate box for the lady >:D
Back to the glass: I guess a shall be able to investigate her at least regarding possible marks (Czech like the ballerina Anja had?) everything is still possible - I'll let you know
Thanks again for your real friendship - very much appreciated - I feel better after you have posted :-* :-* :-*
-
Oh Pamela! I let out a long groan when I saw your photo. What a terrible shame! (http://tcwozere.co.uk/smileys/cry.gif) {{Pamela}}
-
This thread has made me have a closer look at my 3 Stump Ladies.I did know before that one was a different size, smaller and had the ribbed base, where the other two didn't On closer inspection of the 2 I thought where identical(excpet clorour) I have discovered , when I turned them upside down,that they have differences too.
Would you like me to take some pics and show?
Julie
-
Pamela — How sad and unnecessary. I really felt for you, and it brought back to me the horrible day when I unpacked a Davidson trinket set bought on eBay, wrapped in a few pieces of newspaper, smashed to smithereens. But that was deliberate; the seller had listed it as perfect, but had forgotten to include the missing chips and had forgotten to wash years of grime off the old damage.
I wrote that one off as a learning experience, particularly as I was new then to eBay, and I was scared of retaliatory negative feedback, possibly eBay's most profitable feature.
I hope, Pamela, that you get a full refund.
Bernard C. 8)
-
Pamela,
How awful! :'( :hug: And this happened after you'd requested a box around the lady? Good luck, and I hope you do get your refund.
-
Of course! Yes please. Anything to help solve the mystery, or should that be muddy the waters ;D
-
Hi Julie,
I'd love to see the details of the three different stump ladies, too.
(BTW, saw the blue Brickwall vase... ;D)
-
Pamela, i had to post after seeing what has happened to your lovely lady, and i feel guilty as i was the one who pointed this item out, i noticed this seller does'nt live far from me, if you have any problem's and would like me to act as go between, just let me know.
-
Thanks so much to ALL of you!
Please no-one has to feel guilty for anything except the packaging person 8)
The seller offered refund meanwhile, and I do want back only the money for the glass as 'bought it now' - she had postage costs and the bowl is intact, so I try to be fair.
BTW - also this bowl arrived broken today - sometimes I'm fed up with all these careless ebay negotiatiors >:D
http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190067347770
I am not as rich as they seem to think meanwhile - I want my money back, really :o((
-
:o :'( :hug: It's happened to me (http://"http://members.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewUserPage&userid=retro_spection") several times as well, but never with items so beautiful. You're right to be angry!
Maybe you should specify how the seller should pack the item. Since I started requesting proper packing, I've had less breakages, although one seller took offence at and gave me a negative >:(. Some of my friends even ask the seller to check again for chips and cracks before they even consider bidding.
It might even be worth referring sellers to this wonderful 'me' page (from someone on this board ;) ):
http://cgi3.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewUserPage&userid=utter-clutter
:hug:
-
Sorry I took so long getting back with the pics.
If you notice the smaller one in the middle with the ribbed base, her head is different and tilts downwards while the other two are looking straight ahead.The two that I thought were identical, you can see, are different underneath.
The pink bowl is the bowl that came with the pink lady, when I purchased it many years ago from an Antique shop.
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-4618
BTW Pamela, so sorry to hear about the damaged goods.How very disappointing it must have been. :(
Julie
-
Cathy thank you - and shortly before this thread is moved to the Café (which is ok for me :) ) if you read what the seller was asked regarding packaging and shipment of this item http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190067347770 , I had to get an idea of 'the seller is knowing what he is doing'... thought so...
Believe me, I had more than 1500 purchases of glass from ebay - normally the sellers all get their lesson how to package the item... Very few do as asked for: it's a shame! (it's also a shame always to collect packaging fees of GBP 4 for trash paper)
-
I had forgotten about another stump lady I have. ::)This one is yet again different to the others I have.Hands not to her chest, head is dipped down, different base and her hair is different, just to mention a few differences.
She measures approx. 7inches tall
I have added 3 pics of her to the album
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-4678
-
Hi Julie Your 4th lady is the same as my green uranium lady, scroll up :)
-
quote Hinweis:Hi Andrew, please generously bubblewrap the items and perhaps also ship them double-boxed... thank you! Best regards, Pamela unquote
This was my paypal mail to the seller of the Flötenspieler prior to shipment, what else can I do? - we have friendly negotiated meanwhile and came to an agreement, but this does not heal the bowl :'(
Hoping he is going to join us here also.
returning to the Sowerby lady later
-
Christine,I am a silly billy. ::) I had been following this thread,but it has been over many days and I have been doing research on other things in between, so my brain does get scrambled sometimes. ;D
I was dusting and realised I had another of the ladies that I didn't include, so just immediately took pics and posted.I should have done a "refresher" read, to jog my memory. LOL
Julie
-
What's dusting please Miss? ;D
-
Dusting is something you have to do when you you can't see what you have sitting on the shelves, coffee tables etc :D OR you know you are getting visitors, that want to look at your collections and you know they are going to pick up items and handle them ;D
Julie
-
Here's the cog-based Stump lady in her rightful setting here (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/SOWERBY-STUMP-LADY-URANIUM-GLASS-FLOWER-FROG-GLASS_W0QQitemZ160087417897QQihZ006QQcategoryZ70031QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)