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Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: Pinkspoons on January 29, 2007, 10:51:10 AM

Title: Holmegaard Canada.... or not?
Post by: Pinkspoons on January 29, 2007, 10:51:10 AM

Is the glass on the left from the Canada range (the glass on the right is a 9oz Claret)?

I know the range incorporated similar bowl shapes, but I'm not familiar with this one. The quality is there, as is the finish to the base, as well as the way the bowl's been finished (ground & polished, which was standard for the larger sizes, and fire-polishing for the smaller ones).

The thing that's troubling me is that the glass of the bowl is VERY thick when compared to the other sizes I have. Anyone familiar with this as a part of the Canada range, or is it a later knock-off?

Side-By-Side Comparison (http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b108/pinkspoons/can-1.jpg)
Rims (http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b108/pinkspoons/can-2.jpg)

Thanks in advance.

Title: Re: Holmegaard Canada.... or not?
Post by: Pip on January 29, 2007, 11:28:30 AM

Hi Nic, I have a set of 6 glasses like that in a smoked colour and I've always thought them to be Caithness ....

Title: Re: Holmegaard Canada.... or not?
Post by: Pinkspoons on January 29, 2007, 11:36:55 AM

Oh dear.  :( Do you have a photo to hand?

Oh, forgot to mention - the glass in question is 13.5cm tall.

Title: Re: Holmegaard Canada.... or not?
Post by: Sue C on January 29, 2007, 12:22:06 PM

could they be Holmegaard Princess? ;)

Title: Re: Holmegaard Canada.... or not?
Post by: Pip on January 29, 2007, 12:22:37 PM

No photo sorry because they were on my old hard drive that snuffed it.  I still have the glasses though (no idea where they are right now though!) - I believe they dated from the 1970's and, I think, designed by Domnhall O Broin but as I said mine were in a quite distinctive Caithness smokey colour. I don't know if CG made them in clear/flint - I wonder if Frank recognises them as being CG production or not?

Title: Re: Holmegaard Canada.... or not?
Post by: Pip on January 29, 2007, 12:24:23 PM

Definitely not HG Princess glasses Sue!  Quite different - I've been lucky enough to have had several sets of them - I have a photo of one I'll post up here so you can see.

Title: Re: Holmegaard Canada.... or not?
Post by: Pinkspoons on January 29, 2007, 12:40:44 PM

Have spotted them on Frank's site:

Dunnet Goblet (http://www.scotlandsglass.co.uk/cms/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=shop.flypage&product_id=408&category_id=88&manufacturer_id=0&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=27)

The shape's right, but the rim looks wrong, though - is that a safety rim on the Caithness ones? Doesn't look ground & polished from that shot.

Title: Re: Holmegaard Canada.... or not?
Post by: Pip on January 29, 2007, 12:48:43 PM

Well spotted Nic - I'd not noticed that on Frank's site - so not Domnhall O Broin then but Charles Orr - that's very helpful for me - not so for you though.  I can't remember the rim finish I'm afraid ... I'll try and find them.

For Sue, here's a Princess glass (this one's a champagne bowl - I've got a set of 6 and I've also had a boxed set of 6 white wine glasses) they're a very distinctive shape and have a teardrop shaped enclosed bubble in the base.

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g60/pips-trip/IMG_4339.jpg

Title: Re: Holmegaard Canada.... or not?
Post by: Pinkspoons on January 29, 2007, 01:09:15 PM

Here's a (partial) pattern illustration I salvaged from a long-since vanished eBay auction:

Canada Patterns (http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b108/pinkspoons/canada.jpg)

The last glass - a champagne bowl - has a similar shaped bowl to mine, in that it's curved and not flared like the other sizes. Just wish the illustration was complete so I could know for sure. *sigh*

Title: Re: Holmegaard Canada.... or not?
Post by: chopin-liszt on January 29, 2007, 03:26:42 PM

 ;D

My guts said "Caithness" immediately to the glass on the left.
I don't think it "goes" with the one on the right at all.

I've certainly seen the left one in amethyst and smoky(grey-brown).

Title: Re: Holmegaard Canada.... or not?
Post by: Max on January 29, 2007, 03:35:50 PM

I'm not sure why Frank calls the photo on his site 'Dunnet', I haven't heard of that name, did I give him duff information ???  Andy Mc told me that Caithness shape was called 'Canisbay'.   :)

Title: Re: Holmegaard Canada.... or not?
Post by: Pinkspoons on January 29, 2007, 03:40:46 PM

I'm pretty certain now they're not Holmegaard - just wishful thinking to start with, I think. But I'm unsure about the Caithness-ness of them, for much the same reason - the thickness of the glass (and, in this case, the finish of the rim).

Unless, like the Canadas, the larger sizes were ground rather than fire-polished?

Title: Re: Holmegaard Canada.... or not?
Post by: Pip on January 29, 2007, 04:07:03 PM

Certainly I'll agree with you that the rims look different however is it possible that someone could have had your rims ground?  Also, with regard to the thickness - from what I can remember, the Caithness set I have are pretty thick glass and rather weighty - they're not at all delicate.

Title: Re: Holmegaard Canada.... or not?
Post by: Pinkspoons on January 29, 2007, 04:19:24 PM

I can't say for certain that they haven't been ground down - but thanks to Max emailing me a catalogue reference, I can say that the height they're at now is near spot-on... so unless it was just a few millimetres sheared off...? I can't really say one way or t'other, unfortunately.  ???

Title: Re: Holmegaard Canada.... or not?
Post by: Frank on January 29, 2007, 09:36:17 PM

Quote from: Max on January 29, 2007, 03:35:50 PM

I'm not sure why Frank calls the photo on his site 'Dunnet', I haven't heard of that name, did I give him duff information ???  Andy Mc told me that Caithness shape was called 'Canisbay'.   :)

I think there was a problem on ID. Will review data.

Title: Re: Holmegaard Canada.... or not?
Post by: Frank on January 29, 2007, 10:57:45 PM

Story so far:

"The wide stemmed glasses that where thought to be Morven or Dunnet, are called Canisbay in clear crystal, with (at least) two cut crystal versions called Helmsdale and Glenshee.  There's no reference to the coloured version's, so it's still possible they could turn out to be Morven or Dunnet after all." (From Pete)

I knew there was some confusion, it will get resolved in time. Updated SG title to include Canisbay for now.

These are taller but Pete ID's as Canisbay:
http://s19.photobucket.com/albums/b178/pkay6/?action=view&current=Caithness_Canisbay_Wine_Glasses_4.jpg

Title: Re: Holmegaard Canada.... or not?
Post by: Anne on January 30, 2007, 01:53:27 AM

Can I toss a slightly different one into the mix as well? These look very much like the Canisbay ones but they have an enclosed bubble in the base. I found a set of 6 of them in Whitehaven a couple of years ago (at 30p each they seems like a bargain!)  ;)  (Not a particularly good picture - will update asap.)
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-4776

Title: Re: Holmegaard Canada.... or not?
Post by: chopin-liszt on February 01, 2007, 09:37:15 AM

 ::)
The stem in those ones is not thick/solid right up to the bowl, Anne, as is the the one I believe to be Caithness.

Title: Re: Holmegaard Canada.... or not?
Post by: Anne on February 01, 2007, 04:21:19 PM

Thanks Sue, that's true enough. The stems are wider and chunkier too - not so tall as the Canisbay ones.  I suppose they will have to stay a mystery for a while longer!  ::) ;D

Title: Re: Holmegaard Canada.... or not?
Post by: Pinkspoons on February 08, 2007, 01:18:58 AM

Anne, do you still have the photograph of your glasses? The link above won't work anymore (at least not for me)

I think I may have spotted where they come from, but I don't want to make a nitwit out of myself before I compare side-by-side.  ;D

Title: Re: Holmegaard Canada.... or not?
Post by: Anne on February 08, 2007, 03:39:53 AM

Hi Nic, pic is still there: http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-4776 (are you seeing it now, or is GG being silly?) There's another (even worse!) pic here:    http://yobunny.org.uk/gallery1/displayimage.php?pos=-215 or I can email it to you if you can't see it.)

I had a thought about these as well over the weekend, as I was ambling through Debenhams in Barrow and noticed that they have a very similar range with the encased bubble and the same stem, the boxes were marked Made in Belgium.

Does that tie in with your thoughts or are you thinking of something else?

Title: Re: Holmegaard Canada.... or not?
Post by: Max on February 08, 2007, 05:21:44 AM

I'm wondering if Anne's glasses might be Krosno.  THey do a bubble in the base range, I've had a shuftee over the Net and found these:

http://www.amazon.com/Verona-12-Piece-Glasses-Set/dp/B000G78VU8

Not the same, but I think it's a possibility?

Title: Re: Holmegaard Canada.... or not?
Post by: Ivo on February 08, 2007, 07:29:59 AM

Be aware that Kosta made a very similar pattern; we use them for wine and they are wonderful. They have a small bublble in the stem and the bottom is polished flat.
Then there are the Krosno imitations but the bubble is open to the underside; the glass is heavy.
And thirdly, Floris Meijdam made very similar glasses to accompany various Leerdam decanter sets. These would be quite thick and well made - and never turn up in sets of more than 2.

Title: Re: Holmegaard Canada.... or not?
Post by: Max on February 08, 2007, 08:14:41 AM

Thanks Ivo, funny...I thought the Krosno bubbles were open at the bottom, then I found the ones above...now when I click that link they're not even called Krosno!  Sorry Anne.  :P ::)

Title: Re: Holmegaard Canada.... or not?
Post by: Pinkspoons on February 08, 2007, 09:41:54 AM

Picture's working now.

They're far from the ones I was thinking of. Oops. Luckily I learned long ago not to trust my memory.  ;D

For some reason I thought of your glasses when I saw this: Auction (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Holmegaard-Weinglas-aus-der-Serie-Ballon_W0QQitemZ250081956099QQihZ015QQcategoryZ24234QQcmdZViewItem) - even though there's only the loosest of resemblances. :-[

Title: Re: Holmegaard Canada.... or not?
Post by: Ivo on February 08, 2007, 10:58:09 AM

http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-4933

These are the Rondo glasses from Kosta Boda.
Not quite sure who made these first but they may have been widely copied - the other day I found Holmegaard Princess lookalikes, designed by Claude Laurent for Boussu, Belgium in 1967!

Title: Re: Holmegaard Canada.... or not?
Post by: Pip on February 08, 2007, 11:03:26 AM

Quote from: Ivo on February 08, 2007, 10:58:09 AM

... the other day I found Holmegaard Princess lookalikes, designed by Claude Laurent for Boussu, Belgium in 1967!

Gosh!  Did you buy them Ivo and how did you know they were Boussu and not Holmegaard - are they marked - I'd be interested to see them if you have a picture?

Title: Re: Holmegaard Canada.... or not?
Post by: Anne on February 09, 2007, 12:56:27 AM

Thanks all, it's a process of elimination this!
Nic I can see why you thought that, thanks for flagging them up. :)

Max, thanks. I did look at the Krosno ones a while ago and they do have an opening to the bubble. Mine are completely encased. Flat bottomed. The closest match I've seen so far is the ones from Debenhams...  I can't find the goblets but they have sundaes (http://www.debenhams.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_10001_10001_18019_222226_-1) which are very very similar (and tumblers and hi-balls to match)... these are the ones made in Belgium.

Title: Re: Holmegaard Canada.... or not?
Post by: Ivo on February 09, 2007, 09:21:41 AM

Quote from: Pip on February 08, 2007, 11:03:26 AM

Did you buy them Ivo and how did you know they were Boussu and not Holmegaard - are they marked - I'd be interested to see them if you have a picture?

http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-4947
from the 1985 Gemeentekrediet exhibition : "Glaskunst in Wallonië van 1802 tot heden" - in one of those rare to find catalogues.
I did not buy them because they were obviously not quite the Princess quality, and the seller thought he had the real thing, so was asking real prices. Also, if there had been a set  might have been tempted - but there were 3 of one size and 2 of the other.

Title: Re: Holmegaard Canada.... or not?
Post by: Pip on February 09, 2007, 12:20:44 PM

Cheers for that Ivo - I'll keep my eyes open for these, it'd be good to handle them so I can compare them with the Holmegaard Princess range.

I seem to come across a lot of Princess glasses in my area - I've had a boxed set of six wine glasses, six red wine glasses (both sets sold) and now I've currently got a set of six champagne bowls - all bought extremely cheaply from car boot sales or charity shops.  I suspect that they may have been sold new originally by a big dept store in Kingston (up the road) which had a very large crystal and porcelain dept.

Title: Re: Holmegaard Canada.... or not?
Post by: Pinkspoons on February 09, 2007, 02:22:38 PM

Lucky you - Holmegaard very rarely appears in these parts. Which is odd when you consider it's a fishing town which had many social and economic links with Denmark.

Title: Re: Holmegaard Canada.... or not?
Post by: Andy on February 09, 2007, 04:42:21 PM

Looks like a few of us have a set of these!
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-4955

not my best photo, sorry, i always thought probably Holmegaard, but they look
like the Caithness Canisbay to me now, am i right in saying the colour leaks into the stem,
like a sommerso effect, the bowls appear brown and the sommerso ring is amethyst, theyre
5 3/4" tall.
Andy :)

Title: Re: Holmegaard Canada.... or not?
Post by: Pip on February 09, 2007, 05:35:48 PM

Yep, they look like Caithness to me - but I don't really know what you mean about the 'amethyst' part - mine are a smokey brown bowl going into clear glass stems.

Title: Re: Holmegaard Canada.... or not?
Post by: Andy on February 09, 2007, 07:35:16 PM

Pip,
a couple more photos,
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-4963
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-4962

mine appear brown, and i think the bowls are! But there is definitely 1/2cm sommerso effect
ring into the clear stem, and held in daylight, the sommerso shade is purple!
Try yours in the daylight!
Andy.

Maybe mine are the originals, and everybodys else just cheap imitations!  ;)

Title: Re: Holmegaard Canada.... or not?
Post by: Pip on February 09, 2007, 07:42:39 PM

Quote from: Andy on February 09, 2007, 07:35:16 PM

mine appear brown, and i think the bowls are! But there is definitely 1/2cm sommerso effect
ring into the clear stem, and held in daylight, the sommerso shade is purple!
Try yours in the daylight!
Andy.

Maybe mine are the originals, and everybodys else just cheap imitations!  ;)

 ;D wishful thinking!  I think the effect you're talking about is as a result of the concentration of the brown colour but I will double-check mine in the daylight tomorrow to be sure though.

Title: Re: Holmegaard Canada.... or not?
Post by: Andy on February 19, 2007, 07:47:05 PM

Anyone need some more??

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270091243943&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:UK:1

Andy :D

Title: Re: Holmegaard Canada.... or not?
Post by: Pip on February 19, 2007, 08:11:51 PM

Andy, the photo of those definitely show that purple effect you were talking about.  Mine are much browner - perhaps a different colour altogether.

Title: Re: Holmegaard Canada.... or not?
Post by: Andy on February 19, 2007, 08:19:16 PM

Hi Pip,
actually these are far more purple than mine, and dont appear to have a 'sommerso' effect,
mine appear brown, but definitely have a purple ring at the base.
Maybe it was just down to the glassmakers mood on the day?  :-\
Andy

Title: Re: Holmegaard Canada.... or not?
Post by: Pinkspoons on March 11, 2007, 01:06:07 AM

I contacted the seller of this auction days ago to point them in the right direction for attribution, they well-I-nevered at the Caithness relevelation, but unsurprisingly didn't alter the auction...

Here (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/SET-OF-THREE-RETRO-HOLMEGAARD-KOSTA-DANSK-ERA-GLASSES_W0QQitemZ170087685314QQihZ007QQcategoryZ995QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)

So just a fair warning to those who may have missed this thread and were pondering them as Holmegaard.  >:(

Title: Re: Holmegaard Canada.... or not?
Post by: Pinkspoons on July 28, 2008, 08:37:20 AM

Another "Canada-inspired" set of drinking glasses, this time in amber from Leonardo:

http://www.onthetable.co.uk/product.php?sproductID=647&product=Leonardo_Amber_Vela_Glass_Collection&PHPSESSID=0f90b3cf8dd6c764b09f5d5aa61cee8b

Title: Re: Holmegaard Canada.... or not?
Post by: Andy on July 28, 2008, 01:15:48 PM

Nice set on ebay.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=160069335003&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=006

 ;)