Hello, as a follow up to my last post, I have a few more things I've bought in charity shops and thrift stores I've always wondered about - can anyone date these? I think the first one (4" tall) is a rummer, and possibly C.1850, but the second (4.25" tall) I've really no idea about; it could be anytime from 1800-1900, but it has a really irregular (practically ovoid) base, and lots of inclusions.