Topic: Distinctive style of goblet , could it date from c1810-20 or is it later ?

[Baked_Beans]

This lead crystal  goblet is 5 1/2 inches tall and I thought it might date from around c1810-20 or was this style around for most of the Victorian period ? The cutting to the underside of the bowl is quite sharp and it has an eight-sided stem with a polished pontil . Is this glass more likely to be Bohemian or could it be British or Irish ? Thanks for looking !

[Paul S.]

most distinctive - but not a recognizable style of cutting - at least on drinking glasses - from the Regency years.      Although this type of horizontal prismatic cutting appears on decanters of that period (and earlier), and perhaps a little later on some small custards, there's nothing that I can see showing it on drinking glass  -  it simply isn't a type of cutting that was used for that purpose.

It looks unusual, and I can't really suggest a date other than not before the last third of the C19 and probably not later than 1940.             Cutting, which feels sharp to the touch, appears on glass over a long period of time - it seems to start to fall away after the beginnings of the use of acid to speed up the polishing of the cutting, around the 1920's, I believe.

The depression under the foot won't help to date, and it may have originated almost anywhere in Europe.          You might consider if it has the striation marks on the bowl and foot, and it there are any stones/seeds and any sign of the rim blip where this was cut.          Together with colour of the glass, these factors might suggest C19 rather than C20, possibly.

Perhaps Peter (oldglassman) will have a look please.        

[oldglassman]

Hi ,
                Sorry, way out my timeline really though my guts are saying early 20th c but don't ask me why !! art deco ish??.

   cheers ,
                 Peter.

[Paul S.]

The horizontal cutting suggests a C20 glass, although the slice cutting on the lower part of the bowl is a decorative feature of an earlier C19 cutting style - so rather a mixture of features.               Much Georgian and Regency glass did have slice cutting as decoration - particularly on water jugs, finger bowls, rinsers and decanters  - but not drinking glasses.
If pushed I'd suggest somewhere in the first quarter of the C20, and possibly not British.
 

[Baked_Beans]

Thanks very much indeed Paul & Peter,

I was way off the mark there then ! Very interesting (for me) !

I haven't really seen one like it before and had convinced myself it was quite old , I will do a bit of goggling 

It's such a great help for me to have your sound , expert advice  ! Cheers, Mike.

[Paul S.]

hello Mike.......          I shall leave Peter to be the expert, and I'll remain the jack-of-all-trades.          A shame we haven't been able to be more decisive about your glass

[Baked_Beans]

Cheers Paul, you are an expert in my eyes, I'm always interested in your glass finds !

I have found this though which is an Irish rummer, just scroll down to slightly below halfway , which has some horizontal prismatic cutting to the bowl. Also there are a couple of goblets in the V&A dated c1810, supplied to the Prince of Wales , which have the same general shape  .   

http://www.laurieleighantiques.com/pages/wineglasses5.html

This goblet does have a very  slight grey tinge to the metal and there is a good load of wear to the base which might suggest Victorian perhaps . I will see if I can get a link to the V&A glasses (which are utterly superb and have no relation to this goblet apart from the general shape, I hasten to add  ! ) Don't know if this will work.....

http://collections.vam.ac.uk/search/?listing_type=imagetext&offset=0&limit=15&narrow=1&extrasearch=&q=glass+prince+of+wales&commit=Search&quality=0&objectnamesearch=&placesearch=&after=&after-adbc=AD&before=&before-adbc=AD&namesearch=&materialsearch=&mnsearch=&locationsearch=

Ta, Mike.

[Paul S.]

It may be the general shape of your glass Mike that is proving difficult to provide some more positive attribution - but your work in researching this glass is obviously going to make you a lot more knowledgable about drinking glasses, and is the best route to go if you want to learn more.             It sounds as though your glass has some genuine age - how much we don't seem to be able to assess at the moment.
You might send the V. & A. some words plus a pic. of your piece  -  they are very helpful, and will endeavour to give you an answer, but it's not guaranteed.
This museum have some glass you could die for  -  I go occasionally to their glass gallery - I like to be a masochist.        

Irish cut glass is in a world on its own, particulary the late Georgian and Regency period, and it's true that they did have a passion for horizontal prismatic cutting  -  not that I'm suggesting your glass is Irish in origin - I'm sure it's not, but I can see the thinking behind your associating the Irish style with the cutting on your glass.            If you want to see some wonderful Irish material from that period see if you can get a copy of Phelps Warren's book 'Irish Glass'.
Before I jaunt through twenty pages in this heat, will you please say on which page No. the V. & A. goblets appear.           

[Baked_Beans]

Thanks for your encouragement Paul, I will see if I can get a copy of the Irish Glass book from the library.

The V&A goblets are shown directly on the page, on link above , they are the two in the top right . They have the same style of bucket shaped bowl with a knoped cut stem . I did say it was the general shape that I was considering , and not the quality ! To me it just illustrates that this general style of goblet shape was being made around c1810 that is why I mentioned them as they are the only dated examples of this style I could find so far. 

Ta, Mike.