Author Topic: BIRD VASE - Sowling or Joberby? (Read 7886 times)

Glen · « **on:** October 17, 2005, 09:13:56 AM »

Oh it's a puzzle. Who made it? No trademark. My money's on Sowerjoblerby. Has anyone got one with a trademark? Any thoughts and info? I've posted two photos here and plan to put more (catalogue) info on this page shortly.

http://www.geocities.com/carni_glass_uk_2000/PGBirdVase.html

Glen

Bernard C · « **Reply #1 on:** October 17, 2005, 10:32:07 AM »

Glen - yes, it's Jobling's Bird & Panel Vase, 8" No. 11400, 10" No. 11500, Reg. No. 794907 of July 21, 1934, original plaster models by Etienne Franckhauser. Source: Baker & Crowe.

Nice example.

Bernard C.

Glen · « **Reply #2 on:** October 17, 2005, 11:09:15 AM »

Bernard - that's what I always thought.......BUTTTTTT....the same vase is shown in the Sowerby catalogues. Identical.

Here's the Sowerby catalogue image. Illustrated List 39 (1950s?) You'll see the vase is number 2684. It must post date the Jobling one (which was 1934) as shown in Baker & Crowe.

http://tinypic.com/eq5amf.jpg

I'll put this alongside the Jobling one on my website url as shown in my first post above.

Baker & Crowe note the size of the vase is 8". You'll see that Sowerby state theirs to be 7½". The one I have is 7½" - and as I noted above, it has no trademark. I reckon it must be Sowerby's! (Or Joberby's or perhaps even Sowerling).

Adam D, any insights?

Glen

Adam · « **Reply #3 on:** October 17, 2005, 01:00:29 PM »

Glen,

This baffles me. I have no memory of ever having seen this vase nor the number 2684. The range of colours listed is exactly what we had in the 1950s, but the number baffles me. I could have sworn that by the time I left (1956) we had only reached about 2660 or at the most 2670. Are you sure of your catalogue date?

Adam D.

Glen · « **Reply #4 on:** October 17, 2005, 01:05:31 PM »

Hi Adam - it is undoubtedly Illustrated List number 39. You are a better judge of the actual year that was issued than I am ... I'm just guessing from context, as the Tyne & Wear book shows List 38 to be from 1956.

It's a puzzler, that's for sure. I had always thought my vase was Jobling, but then I stared at the Sowerby catalogue page that I've posted the extract from, and nearly dropped off my chair when I realised what the vase actually was.

Glen

Bernard C · « **Reply #5 on:** October 17, 2005, 02:38:13 PM »

Glen & Adam - I am not at all surprised. Jobling's old "Flint" moulds were available post-war, indeed I recall that you, Adam, told us that you were there, reminiscing over the old Davidson lorry with the driver, when the last of them were loaded on to it in the early sixties. That final batch must have included the wildly Deco random geometric ashtray No. 2598 that I have had through my hands, punched with the new Davidson trademark, and made in their "Marble" glass.

It also explains why the small bird & panel vase is by far the most widely available of all Jobling's 1930's decorative vases. Jobling were late on to the market with this glass, and must have had difficulty in obtaining trade buyers, already well established with other suppliers.

It also explains why the small bird & panel vase is found in some very unjoblingesque colours and finishes.

Bernard C.

Glen · « **Reply #6 on:** October 17, 2005, 02:45:16 PM »

Yes Bernard. I think we are going to have to change our thinking (and records) about the Bird & Panel vase. I am pretty sure mine is Sowerby (going by its size and lack of a trademark). If anyone has a marked 11400 (not the larger 10" one) can you please measure its height? Mine is undoubtedly a little under the 8" mark.

Bird & Panel vase - Jobling AND Sowerby.

Glen

Adam · « **Reply #7 on:** October 17, 2005, 03:22:23 PM »

Yes, I think we are getting there. If List 38 was 1956, that was probably the one and only one that I was involved with. As I left that year, No 39 would be post-me.

I had always assumed that when I saw the Jobling moulds en route for Davidsons some time in the 1960s that the latter had taken the whole lot. With hindsight, there was no justification for that - just a feeling based on the fact that Jobling's engineering management liked to get rid of unwanted stuff fast. It now seems that Sowerbys (and others?) might have been invited to do a bit of cherry -picking.

The big gap between the pattern numbers which I remember and 2684 surprised me because I knew that no way would Sowerbys have had the capacity to produce so much new stuff. That now will suggest that Sowerbys took and re-christened much more than this one vase or suite.

So, you cynic (I forget who) who criticised Sowerbys sequential numbering system, it has its uses!!

Adam D.

Bernard C · « **Reply #8 on:** October 17, 2005, 03:31:28 PM »

Glen - A most interesting and important discovery, embracing several "firsts". I hope that future historians acknowledge your discovery, but, as I have rather sadly recently discovered myself, you should not expect it. I don't understand why. Proper acknowledgement adds considerably to the strength of your material.

Well done, Glen, and my warmest congratulations.

Bernard C.

Glen · « **Reply #9 on:** October 17, 2005, 04:22:18 PM »

Bernard - thank you for your chivalrous compliment

(Truth is, I am no stranger to my research being buried in the mists).

However, the bottom line is that with the help of both you and Adam, we have managed to advance our collective knowledge a little further.

So, THANK YOU Bernard and THANK YOU Adam

Glen