Topic: Early 19th Century plates, acid etched frosted base ?

[Andy]

Some years ago , i found a large lot of glasses , plates , finger bowls at the local auction,
they had been hidden away in a cellar for many many years, and were very dirty!
I could see the quality, and was lucky enough to win them at auction.
I thought they were c1880, but as the years have gone by , i think they are earlier, maybe Regency
I will put pics of the glasses in another post.
The plates are interesting, I have found almost identical in 'Millers collecting glass' Sarah Yates, Mark West, David McCarron, page 133, describes the plate shown as 'glass plates rare before the advent of pressed glass, this Irish one(C1820)has simple star cutting under the base and a low flat decorated rim, fruit or dessert'
It looks like it has the same frosted base.
I remember reading that acid etching was not invented until mid 19th Century, would mine be frosted by acid etching or another method.
Theyve got a value of £200 ! and ive got 15 !!, so would be nice to find out more
Any help welcome, Cheers Andy

[Andy]

I will post more of the glasses in a new post, heres the collection and one pic of glasses, lovely stems

[Andy]

Message from oldglassman (posted on a different thread)

" Hi , Had a look at your plates and i am sorry   to say they are not really in my field of expertise, lol  If i have any at all , I am not sure that I agree with the comment that plates are rare before the advent of pressing , I have several 18thc plates ,including some 18thc lynn plates so I think we will have to wait for the 19th and 20thc experts to give there opinions ,though the bases look like they may have had a kind of sand blasting as opposed to acid frosting , but hey!!   thats a stab in the dark ,
What a great haul though to find so many very useable plates that certainly have some age and quality ,

Good luck with finding out about them

Cheers ,
             Peter "

[flying free]

I'm confused a bit - is this good news or not so good news
 I hope good news for you.

m

[Andy]

Im not sure 
Ivos book says sand blasting invented in 1870, i was leaning towards an earlier date though.

Any other ideas on whether frosting is sand blasted, acid etched or something else ??
The pattern around the edge is also etched/frosted.
There is a ridge around the base , i feel the frosted base has lost a millimetre, in the process of
frosting, how ever it was done.
ivos book says 1857 development of Acid engraving, so if the plates are done with either of these
tecniques, that would make them last half 19thC.
Unless someone has another theory on how it was done, the edges make me think machine etched??
Heres a couple of close ups.
Any suggestions welcome
Cheers
Andy

[Lustrousstone]

Looks too "rough" to be acid etched.

[Sid]

Andy

Etched, to me, always means acid was used.  The leaves on your plates are wheel engraved not etched.  The base is definitely not etched.  Another method of mechanical frosting is wheel roughing but typically you would see some directionality to the decoration and I don't see any in your photo.

[Andy]

Thanks Christine and Sid,
I can see the machine wheel engraved marks on the pattern.
The ridge around the frosted base, makes me think its more likely machine ground ,
i think the base has lost too much glass to be acid or sand blasted, if that makes sense.
More photos below, the base feels silky smooth.
Im sure it must have been ground down somehow
 

[Cathy B]

Could machine grinding have made that texture though? Could the rim have been created by machine grinding, and then the texture made by sandblasting perhaps?

[Andy]

I dont know Cathy  
The reason there is a rim, is that was the original smooth curved polished base, and the frosting process has removed enough glass to leave the rim.
 (thats a lot of blasting or Acid! )
I may email Mark West and see if he remembers whether the example in the book has a frosted base,
its not clear from the photo