Topic: modern or vintage candle holder

[Paul S.]

I've alternated frequently with this charity shop piece - thinking it is either  :or: fakery, or possibly an early C20 genuine article - the colour being a common one for inexpensive utilitarian pieces (a sort of bottle green).   Height is 6.5 inches/165mm, and the ribbing can be felt on both the inside and outside.    Has this cup type of holder on the bottom of the inside, measuring about 1.25"/30mm tall, in which a candle might have been placed.   The snapped pontil mark, appears to indicate that the item wasn't attached to a solid piece of glass, and wear can be seen on the high spots of the base (might have been sand papered possibly).   But it is the seal that is a puzzle, and I don't see the mark in my books.      There is a 2/3mm channel that runs behind the seal  -  the implication being I guess that something like wire or string would have been used to suspend the item - possibly.   Anyone have any thoughts, and thanks for looking.

[Chris Harrison]

Have you worked out what the seal actually says?

[Paul S.]

in short.....No        Regret to say that I'm no wiser - and unable to decipher what the seal says........beyond seeing what looks like a four-legged caterpillar standing up on its hind leg - the very large capital 'N'.    The smaller letters are difficult, and might be possibly be .....'something  -  then maybe 'O', then TRL possibly.    It's really quite an odd piece  -  has all the hallmarks of being late C19 or early C20 in its own cheap sort of way, but then I have doubts and think it's vastly more modern.

[Chris Harrison]

OK.  Glad I asked, cos looking at the last photo I was thinking
Half a ship's wheel + a capital N + 167(or 1)2 1(or 0)

The Nazeing Glass Works was founded in 1612.  Could it possibly read as 1612?  A commemorative piece from their shop?

http://www.nazeing-glass.com/

[Paul S.]

thanks for the suggestion  -  I am just about to be dragged out for a post festive walk, so can't really assess just at the moment.    I will follow up either tonight or tomorrow, and thanks again. :fc:

[Paul S.]

unless I'm going wrong, I don't see anything of help in the link, unfortunately  -  and despite further looking, the seal/mark remains a mystery.   I will have to seek professional help.    Will, of course, let you know if I'm successful.

[Anik R]

Good for you, Paul!  Never be ashamed of having to seek 'professional help'... 

[Cathy B]

No idea whether it is or isn't, but I've added Nazeing to the title, and hopefully someone will be able to give a definite yea or nay.

[nigel benson]

Hi,

I would be very surprised if this turned out to have any relevance at all to Nazeing. It seems that the only link we have is that there might be a link to a tenuous date that has nothing at all do to with Nazeing glass works - 1612.

Neither Geoff Timberlake, nor myself can find a continuous link for Nazeing Glass going back to 1612. There is documentation that glassmaking in Vauxhall (where Nazeing's predecessors can from) goes back to 1612.   However, the Kempton's who worked in that area, and started Nazeing Glass with the purchase of the Goats (a field on the border of Essex and Hertfordshire in Nazeing) do not have any history of glassmaking before around 1877 (from memory).

That said, even if we accept the idea, if it was say the 300th anniversary in 1912, then it would be Kempton - not Nazeing. Going to the next possible date for a commemoration 1962 (for 350 years) we are not aware of transparent ribbed glass being made at this date. All knowledge suggests glass at this time was coloured with opaque enamels with shapes that have documentation, or that have been recorded by extrapolation.

Sorry, but an 'N' embossed on the piece, with a possible 1612 is just too darn tenuous.

Although I should never say this, it does at least conform to what is currently known to say - no not Nazeing.

Nigel


PS. Paul......who are the professionals that your calling on?? They sound very useful N.

[Paul S.]

I did in fact telephone Nazeing ealier today - although the festive celebrations mean that most of the employees are still absent from the works.    My knowledge of Nazeing is vastly less than useful  -  and although I appreciate anyone's suggestions when I am 'stuck'  -  must admit that I also considered that this direction was probably a non starter.     
'Professionals', Nigel are those fortunate souls who are paid to spend their days in the enjoyable pursuit of 'sifting through history' to assist mere mortals like myself  - hopefully, to come up with answers to my questions. 
In truth, I had in mind the V. & A.         However, I will let this one run for a few days more, before I pester them.             It is an oddity this one, isn't it
Tomorrow I'm off to the National Archives at Kew, again, in pursuit of assistance from more 'professionals' -  although not in relation to this subject.