Topic: UNMARKED JAR

[KrazeyLady]

I have recently acquired some new (to me) glass items that I would like help identifying.

This one is a clear glass jar. Possibly a canning jar.
It is totally unmarked except for the size (1Ltr) and a number (1930).
I am assuming that the number is the Patent date.
I am also assuming it is French, but this is only based on the fact that I bought it from an elderly French lady at a Vide Grenier.
The jar is 8ins tall. 12+1/2ins round the wider part and 10ins round the neck. It has a (similar to) bail closure. It has a few air bubbles, so I guess it has been blown into a mold. The mold seams on the bottle are quite thick (and stand out from the bottle) and extend to the indent for the wire closure. The seams above this are very fine - almost invisible - and are off-set by 1/4 turn.

Is the number a Patent date?
Is it French/European?
Is it possible to determine where it would have been made?
Any sites that can point me in the right direction?

Thanks for any help

K/L.

[Paul S.]

Hello KL  -  the first thing that came to mind was the proverbial Kilner Jar.     Not seen so frequently now I guess since modern mums or wives no longer bottle or pickle their garden produce.   I can remember seing only those examples with the traditional open ended screw top over a rubber seal, but dountless, since there have been many copies, then other forms of sealing may well have been used.
I'm probably breaking all the rules here by quoting Wiki, but a very quick search came up with the following:

"Kilner jars are often confused with a similar jar featuring a metal hinge and a rubber seal. In the United Kingdom, these are sometimes known as "French Kilner" jars. In the United States, a jar sealed with a metal hinge leveraging down a glass lid and rubber seal is said to be using a "bail closure."[unreliable source?]"

Do you think that there might be any connection with your 'jar'.

[KrazeyLady]

Hi Paul
I've got tons of canning jars as here (in France) people still do a lot of bottling. I collect, and sell, many of them and spend hours/days/weeks researching each new type (to me, that is) jar. I first thought "Kilner", then "L'Ideale" followed by many more. The fact that this one has no identifying marks makes it unusual. Not rare, as I have several unmarked bottles/jars. Since oringinally posting this I have foud out that unmarked bottles were (probably) pre-1920's. After that glass producers tended to "advertise" their wares.
Thanks for taking the time to look at my post and look up Wiki. I do appreciate any help and/or suggestions.

Cheers
K/L

[Frank]

Number will be a mould number, could have been made by any of the many bottle container works, mould could have been in use for a long time. It is a mass produced item and the chances of tracing manufacturer are slim to none. It could be anything from a couple of years old to fifty! The advice about unmarked and pre-1920 is a complete nonsense. It was a norm for bottle plants to number their moulds as they would have many hundreds and needed to keep track.

[KrazeyLady]

Hi Frank
I've got 100's of bottles and jars as I collect and sell them. Not one other bottle amongst any of my boxes has got a number anything like this. Most of my bottles/jars are French and many don't have a number at all. Today is the first time I've read anything about a "Patent date" so I really don't know, but the fact that none other has a similar type of number did set me to thinking.
Also most of my "mass produced" bottles have the side/neck seams more or less even. This one is totally offset by a 1/4 turn. Because of the seams I assumed it would have been mass produced, but again most of my bottles have regular thickness to their seams below and above the join. This one has two differing thicknesses to the seams. Below is thick and stands out from the glass. Above is so fine I almost missed it, especially as I was looking for it to be directly above the lower seam..
In the years I've been in France collecting/selling I've not seen one quite this shape, either.
If you really thnk it's a mold number then I'll start looking in that direction.
Thanks

Cheers
K/L

[Frank]

You will get nowhere looking for mould numbers, I have seen few makers catalogues that include them apart from American ones. If you look at the type of machinery used for this type of product you will understand the mould marks.

e.g. http://www.ysartglass.com/Moncrieff/MoncrieffMonish.htm

and a patent description
http://www.ysartglass.com/Moncrieff/Patent/Patuk542677.htm

[KrazeyLady]

Thanks again. I've had a quick skim through and will read both pages properly tomorrow when Im more awake.

Good night all
Bed is calling

K/L