Chris now i am totally confused i asked Ray about the one on the first posting the one where a guy who worked at W/Fs said there were only two made i didnt mention this to Ray so i find it strange Ray said two or three , i described it as a straight sided round vase the shape of a relay baton in ruby with the siver chloride band , Ray said yes i know the one - we - (he and i ) saw one in Amber down at Emsworth a couple of years back i made them but only two or three were made in that colour , so i am quite surprised at what Patrick and Nigel are saying to say the least . I rest my case your honour . :spls: :huh2: confused .