Topic: date request for Kluk Kluk/kuttrolf decanter.

[Paul S.]

If you try the GMB search under the lesser used description of 'Kuttrolf', you get access to a lot of past information on this style of decanter  -  many of which seem to have come from Holmegaard - although they have been produced at one time or another (for centuries, apparently) in most parts of Europe.    Odd ones pop up at boot sales, and I've seen them in charity shops, and usually they are a plain uniform colour of one sort or another.         This one is unusual - showing a sort of floral decoration produced with thick enamel paint - probably originally a bright orange.       There is reasonable wear, but not vast amounts.
Height (including stopper) is something like 11.1/2" - 290mm, with a flat ground base showing the matching no. 2 which agrees with the stopper.   There's a feint circular backstamp which shows.....GLASFABRIK - KARLSBAD, and a wine glass either side of which is an upper case M (I think).          Underneath the circle it reads MADE IN AUSTRIA.       This doesn't really match with entries in Ivo Haanstra's book - so hoping someone can shed a little more light for me - and in particular I'd be interested in a date of manufacture.  Could this be pre 1918 possibly?        thanks for looking.

[flying free]

my first thought would be Moser although that would be based on description and the mark, I couldn't say whether the piece  and the enamelling is right for Moser  ...but then I'm guessing from your comment about it not matching Ivo's book that you mean it doesn't match for Moser...or anything else?

some discussion in this thread about the wording Glasfabrik Karlsbad
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,28526.msg154795.html#msg154795
m

[Paul S.]

thanks m  -  must admit I didn't do a GMB search for this name - and regret I can't look right now, so in the morning it will have to be.       I'm way out of my depth with these things, and although I've picked up the odd standard Holmegaard example on occasions I know almost nothing about them.        Just couldn't resist this one as it seemed a little different, and I thought possibly much older.       I don't think we should let the enamelling lead us astray - it's very basic, and not what I'd have thought of as Moser quality, alghough they may well have made these decanters......... - is that a date on the label in your link - or just a code No.?             I hadn't looked at Moser in Ivo's book.

[flying free]

but if the enamelling had all been intact and retained all it's gilding(I'm thinking all the leaves and flowers would have been gilded over the raised yellow base) then it would have looked superb.  So perhaps it was good enamelling?
m

[Lustrousstone]

I agree, there would have been gilding over the raised yellow

[Paul S.]

Am sure you are both correct re the original quality of the gilding, some of which remains although doubt as bright though  -  however, glass wise this example is otherwise quite basic in its manufacture, with noticeable mould/flow lines showing.       Have looked again at Ivo's descriptions of backstamps etc., for Moser, but still don't see this exact one, many of which are oval as opposed to round as here.         The lack of the word Czechoslvakia might indicate earlier than 1918, and use of the word Karlsbad looks to have been an indication of earlier manufacture.    It stands a little wonky, and you can see it's not quite 'round' at the collar/rim            Am I correct in thinking that this floral/swags sort of enamel decoration was more of a late C19/early C20 style?   

[Lustrousstone]

Definitely pre-1918 because of the Austria. Moser wasn't the only glass manufacturer in Karlsbad, in fact it wasn't a glass manufacturer until it took over an existing glass works in 1893. It was a refiner previously.

[flying free]

oh I had thought that Moser was the only Glass Manufacturer in Karlsbad.  That the others were refiners or finishers.
I need to reread 
m

[flying free]

It says here that Moser was the only Glass works in Karlsbad.
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,28526.msg155005.html#msg155005 ?
I also thought Moser built their own glassworks (source Truitt Collectible Bohemian Glass 1880-1940 page 90), not took over someone elses?
is my reading out of date ?  :cry: I've only just bought the book
m

[flying free]

attributed to Moser

your mark also found here
http://www.great-glass.co.uk/glass%20notes/markm-m.htm
m