Topic: Whitefriars Ltd. Ed. weights without numbers?

[Tony G]

Hi, where Whitefriars issued a paperweight design in a limited number they engraved the number of the weight within the total issue on the base. This corresponded with the accompanying certificate. Does this mean that any weight of a limited design that has no engraved number on the base, and no signs of re-grinding, was probably never sold to the public?

A have a couple of such weights that have no signs of being seconds or development weights, are in perfect condition, but have no numbers.

Any insights, especially from ex-Whitefriars workers would be appreciated.

Thanks

[mjr]

You need to differentiate between "limited editions" where a pre set number of an item will be made, and limited numbers, where only a small volume were ultimately made. Whitefriars issued designs in limited editions - for example the silver jubilee, the xmas weights,  or other commeratives, and these were all scratch numbered on the base. However most of the Whitefriars output was not in limited editions. These weights were not numbered.   Some of the rarer designs were actualy issued in such small numbers that they are rarer than the limited editions.  All the non limited editions were issued with a certificate of authenticity which would identify the design, but these again were not numbered. 

So what you have will be a genuine none limited edition Whitefriars.

[Tony G]

Hi, thanks for the input mjr.   

You're right that many unlimited weights were made without engraved numbers and also that the limited editions should have an etched number and when new, a corresponding certificate. HOWEVER, many engraved limited editions no longer have their certificates and the items I have are definitely limited edition designs. What is interesting is whether many apparently perfect weights were made in these designs without numbers and either and not issued or sold to staff.  Certainly there are Mayflower weights around in various cuts, that do not have a limited edition number engraved on them.

One of the ones I am refering to is a USA series limited edition "Bell, Flag and Eagle" where only 69 were sold. How many more exist without an etched number? Since the edition size was 100 and only 69 sold, should we expect to find a further 31 un-numbered examples?

Cheers

[daveweight]

Ray Annenberg told me whenever an new edition was made extra copies were always produced so that if any got damaged or cut wrongly replacements were available. Once this edition was complete I understand the extra copies were often sold off in the factory shop, often being maked with an S to show they were seconds and avoid any comeback. My copy of the Australian Black Swan and the Christmas Bell are both unumbered.
I have seen several Whitefriars weights with an S and could find no obvious faults and I believe it was beneficial to the company to sell some stuff off in the factory shop as they got more for it this way. I know some collectors have had the S ground out.
Can't say for sure this is the reason for every unumbered weight but I hope it goes part way to explaining the mystery
Dave

[Tony G]

Hi Dave,
             thanks for the reply. You are so lucky to have any sort of black swan, they must be like gold dust, numbered or not!! I suspect there are a few ex-workforce weights appearing now as time goes by. No disrespect to anyone, it's just that time marches on and these get sold rather than passed down through the generations.

Regards

Tony

PS Do you have a picture folder anywhere on the web that could be accessed to view some of your Whitefriars paperweights ?

[daveweight]

Hi Tony,
I have around 40 Whitefriars weights including all the Christmas, animal, USA centenary, silver jubilee and coronation weights plus the large owl, bee and butterfly, telephone and one of the transfer weights of a cat. In addition I have three of the pattern plates used to make weights and a large collection of canes including many that were never actually used in production weights like the sitting woman, windsor castle and pansy. Unfortunately I do
not have a picture gallery but if you contact me directly I would be happy to send you and pictures you want.
Dave

[Tony G]

Hi Dave,
              sorry but, I would like to send you an e-mail with my e-mail address but your profile doesn't let me. You should be able to PM me as my postings have an envelope at the side which sends to my e-mail. I am happy to post my e-mail if there is no other way.

Cheers

Tony

PS Happy to send you photos of some of the unusual Whitefriars I have although not up to your standard of mainstream weights. From your post, I take it that you have a donkey silhouette(?). I have a couple of the development models for the Christmas weights (3 wise men and partridge), an ILN weight based on the "petal" PB302, 4 development models for the 1980 Olympics (2 x green grounds with white and blue rings, a DB ground with multi-colour rings and a LB ground with a different "80"cane to that issued), a couple of development models for the 1976 olympics (diff. canes and dates), a couple of odd-ball USA series, an odd-ball "star of David", a "4+1 facet jubilee", and two different sizes of miniatures.