Topic: Georgian? wine or dram glass

[marie anne]

I'm well out of my comfort zone with older glass and would appreciate any help or pointers.  Is this a Georgian wine/dram glass?  It has some tool marks on the top of the foot and I can see horizontal banding in the bowl.  It's 12cm high, the bowl is 5cm across and the foot just under 6cm across. I've read that the shape of the stem is baluster. 
Thanks for any help.
Marie.

[Paul S.]

hello Marie.           Your glass doesn't fall outside the height limit of a dram glass, but I'd suggest it has the wrong bowl shape completely.
Your glass looks more like a second half C19 wine or sherry glass, and you're correct in saying it has a baluster stem (as opposed to an inverted baluster where the bulge is higher with the slender part below).
Not easy to see in your picture, but the underside of the foot looks to me as though I'm seeing possibly part of a shears or gadget mark  - I'm not entirely sure which - but it's either where the plastic glass was literally cut away from the pontil iron, or it represents where the worker held the foot in a piece of equipment which was called a gadget.
Am I correct in thinking the decoration on your glass is mould formed, as opposed to cut - in fact it may be an example of petal moulding.         Your 'horizontal banding' on the bowl, and tool marks on the top of the foot are the striations and marks left by the maker whilst he was forming the shape of the glass - again whilst the glass was still soft.          This may be a tavern or pub glass, and although of no great value is nonetheless a good piece of Victorian social history.
Useful information should also include whether or not this is lead glass, and dating often relies on a good description of the underside of the foot.
All you now need is a good book on C18 and C19 drinking glasses  -  we need more people interested in these things .
 

[marie anne]

Hello Paul,
Thank you for answering my posts.  I think the line on the base is the remnant of a mark from the shears.  The petal shapes are definitely cut not moulded.  I'm looking for a good book on C18-C19 drinking glasses.  I've just ordered a little Shire publication to start me off, but what would you recommend?  (I've got the Barbara Morris Victorian Table Glass and Ornaments book, and also the Charles Hadjamach British Glass 1800-1914 book but these had nothing as simple as my glass.)  I thought maybe my glass was older because it is less elaborate than the examples in these books, but maybe is just more cheaply made like the tavern or pub glass you suggest?  I'm not sure if it is lead glass, it pings quite well.  It has a faint greyish tint to the glass.  I'm attaching a photo of the two glasses (this one and the joined together one in the other post) in case the comparison helps.  The other glass has a thicker bowl.  The glass in this post has traces of what looks like metal oxide impurities on the top rim (by which I mean there's a line of something which looks a bit rusty on the part of the rim!).

[Paul S.]

thanks Marie.            The fact that decoration on this glass is cut, doesn't change my comments about date, unfortunately.
I mentioned petal moulding because that is a well documented form of moulded decoration from the Georgian period, seen often on rummers and some ale glasses after 1800 ish - and is quite distinctive with petal like panels bordered by a raised piping (bit like ceramics).
The gadget or shears mark (which appears to be on your glass), is not seen prior to 1860, and usually on lesser quality pieces  -  prior to this date a ground/polished pontil depression is more usual (or, of course, a snapped pontil scar) - I expect you are aware of what these look like.

Morris and Hajdamach are very good books (which I'd always recommend), but not of real use if you wanted information on drinking glasses, especially.            Collectors of drinking glasses are mostly interested in pieces from the period 1700 to about 1830 - usually classed as C18 glasses, which includes the creme de la creme of innovation and design (and the most expensive - they're a very snobby bunch you know )
But that period did produce the very best of lead drinking glasses - and what came after very much needs careful sorting to find the few good pieces.
Depending on how serious you wish to be about collecting, there are several books that cover drinking glasses and table glass of the C18 - early C19 ............
Bickerton's  - 'Eighteenth Century English Drinking Glasses - An Illustrated Guide'  (Antique Collectors Club)
E. Barrington Haynes -  'Glass Through the Ages'  .........a cheap paperback, but very good.
G. Bernard Hughes  -  'English, Scottish and Irish Table Glass'  -  very heavy and great door-stop if you decide you don't like it, but a good read which is something you can't say of that many glass books.
I'm not aware of anything specifically on later C19 drinking glasses  -  the Victorians were very much copyists, and perhaps the excesses of the Hanoverians had disappeared and there was nothing new to invent.
Unfortunately, ebay is full of glass sellers who think every piece is Georgian - and it can be difficult (on the screen) to tell the difference between original and copy.
If your impurities are on the surface, try cleaning viorously, otherwise I can't really say  -  some tavern glasses can include dirt and bubbles.

It's possible to fill a book with suggestions and thoughts on what to look for and what to ignore, but visiting antique centres and glass fairs is a cheap and easy way to see this sort of material in the flesh (provided you don't drop one, or flick them too hard)  -  but at the end of the day it a case of time and learning plus reading the books.
Good lesson is not to part with pieces until you are good enough to know they aren't something better than you first thought

Your pix might be improved by sharper focus and a background contrast of dark grey or black  -  but clear glass is never easy to photograph - we have people here who are good and may give their advice.