Topic: Milk Glass Doilie Plaque I.d Request

[Otis Orlando]

I'm having difficulty in the identification of this pressed milk plaque with grape pattern design.   The plaque measures approx. 23.2cm dia.  The rim base is 14.2cm dia.   Within the centre of the the base rim are the markings as shown that I must admit, not familiar with.   This same marking also appears on the laced area at the back of the plaque.  My question is,........why would there be the necessity to mark the plaque twice and could this be, due to the plaque being made in two sections?  Striation lines also can be clearly seen within the base area.  Well, that's what I think they are.    

[Mosquito]

The markings are a British design registration diamond. You can look up the details of the registration here on the Great Glass site: http://www.great-glass.co.uk/glass%20notes/lozkey.htm

The two marks are for two separate registrations, one for the design in the centre, while the other was for the border pattern.

Don't need to look this one up though to find the maker: This plate was made by Greener, there's a black example shown in Victorian Table Glass and Ornaments by Barbara Morris.

[agincourt17]

I can confirm that the plates were indeed made by Henry Greener of Sunderland. They normally bear the Greener '1st-lion' trademark (a demi lion facing left with star in outstretched paws) and the registery date lozenge for 29 July 1876 - Parcel 6, corresponding to a registered design number of 302199.

I attach photos of an opaque turquoise blue example and the trademark and lozenge from an opaque white example.  I know both the white and blue examples were marked on the flat part of the underside but can't recall if there was a second set of marks.

Certainly both lozenges on Otis Orlando's example seem to read the same (though Greener did use multiple registration numbers on some of their later pieces, especially the baskets with rustic handles).

I can only remember seeing 9 inch plates in this pattern, though Jenny Thompson gives a description as " a dessert service (vine and grapes)".  Does anyone have photos of other shapes for RD 302199

Fred.

[Mosquito]

I had a large oval plate in this pattern in clear frosted; I'm not sure if I still have the pics though. I think there's an example shown in Manley too, but I could be wrong there...

[Sid]

  Does anyone have photos of other shapes for RD 302199

Fred.

Fred:

I have a photo of a rectangular tray with the open work edge but the center design is a basket weave not the grapes.   It is not my photo and I don't know where I harvested it from either so can't go back and get permissions.  I have wondered if the registration was for the open work edge but Thompson mentions the grapes.

If you send me an email, I can attach the photo with my reply for your files.

Sid

[mhgcgolfclub]

I think these may be the same date registered , they are Henry Greener in this post will check later.

http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,50466.msg285223.html#msg285223

Roy

[Otis Orlando]

Oh great! that's fantastic news. I certainly did not expect the plaque to be as old as that.  Thank you ever so much for your findings Steven.  Even though Fred has kindly provided me with all the info. currently needed to date the plaque, I thought It best that I too, know how to do this, for future references, that is.  . 

With reference to this site:

http://www.great-glass.co.uk/glass%20notes/lozkey.htm

I thought I would just let you know, I have noticed that the marking 'Rd' is different to the marking on the plaque I have posted.  It only has the letter 'R'.   Should that make any difference?

[agincourt17]

I presume that the 'd' in 'Rd' sometimes appears to be missing because of a worn or badly cut mould, and sometimes because of insufficient pressure during the actual pressing process. It's the letters and digits in the internal angles of the lozenge that are the important date indicators (the Roman numerals in the circle at the top indicating the registration Class - in this case III for glass).

[agincourt17]

I can report that I have received the photos from Sid “of the a rectangular tray with the open work edge but the center design is a basket weave not the grapes”

Although the photo of the lozenge is not of the best it is still sufficiently good to confirm the date letters and digits as those for RD 302199 of 29 July 1876 - Parcel 6, the same as that on the 'grape and vine' plates.

I have checked the description from the online registration summary at The National Archives and it is given simply as "A desert [dessert] service" - despite what Jenny Thompson says - so the pertinent design feature could well be the looped border rather than any enclosed pattern.

I will post the relevant details on the GMB RD look-up to try and clarify what the registration drawings depict in due course.

[Paul S.]

good piece Otis - nice find.            Just a little reminder to say that, as we all know, it doesn't follow that a piece of pressed glass will have necessarily been made on the actual registration date, or even the same year.         Some moulds were in service for some considerable time, which is one of the reasons for the occasional poor legibility of lozenges and Rd. Nos. - another reason will be as Fred has pointed out that it was simply a poor pressing.
Sometimes it's possible to find pressed glass with Reg. details so poor that it makes you wonder for how many years they might have been used.
If you would like me to have a look at the original Registration details in the U.K. archives, let me know.