Topic: Would this be a Carriage Glass? Any Clues to the Age?

[David E]

Posting this on Patricia's behalf.

This is another of her finds from the box she successfully bid for at auction! To me it looks like a carriage glass and similar to the one shown in Scotland's Glass p.25, except for a plainer design. As usual with carriage glasses, there is no base and the glass was intended to be dropped into a hole to support it.

Does anyone have an idea when these were made? I suppose mid-19th century was when they fell out of fashion with the onset of train travel. Lastly, were these known on the continent, or were they peculiar to Britain?

PC: Can you give a height please?

[Patricia]

Thanks David, height is 11.5cm
Did we have those things in Holland also? I have never heard of them or seen them here but that doesn't mean much, does it.

Patricia

[Ivo]

This is a "Fugeltsje" - a little bird in Frisian. The original design is from Kaj Franck ( "Ryyppy Lasi" for Iittala in 1953)  but the dimensions are slightly of with this version which was distributed by a drinks company with bottles of Beerenburg (herb infused Gin)  in the 80s or 90s.
It comes with a little saucer and a leaflet comprising starter instruction for Dutchmen visiting Friesland.  This is no luxury, as "It ken net" is Frisian for "it cannot be done" but will invariably be understood as "it can JUST be done". Many a ship got stuck in the lock due to these language problems.

[Paul S.]

In the U.K., I think these coaching glasses were more commonly called stirrup cups  -  is that correct  -  and were certainly being used in the Regency period.         Perhaps the word coaching was of Scottish derivation only?

[David E]

Stirrup cups were given to the riders just prior to a hunt, but they were not shaped like this. They were more like tots.

Thanks Ivo. Seeing that it was bought at a Dutch auction, I wouldn't be surprised!

[Ivo]

I have the original packing and the leaflet - i don' t think there is room for surprise.

[Paul S.]

thanks for the link David.           I get the impression there may well have been some degree of overlap of usage, and whilst you're correct and most stirrups pieces were indeed cup shaped without the stem and knop, some of the books do illustrate exampes - like Patricia's - and call them stirrup glasses, but you're right, we must not call them 'cups'.
I see that the only pair of glass 'cups' in your link have long stems with a knop
         
I'd still be inclined to go with a starting date (for the U.K.) - for those with stems and knops (i.e. carriage/stirrup glass) - as c. 1800, but probably not earlier.
Unfortunately, people like Barrington Haynes and Bickerton seem rather quiet on the subject  -  although Bickerton refers to an article in the  'Antique Dealers and Collectors' Guide' for January 1968 entitled 'Glasses that have no feet' (three pages with illustrations - but I've not seen the article).

Your question...'Any clues to age'....   is something that can be answered partly by the owner.         Whilst these things may well have started in the U.K. around 1800, I've not the remotest idea as to their genesis on the Continent  -  it may have been earlier or later.          Is this piece lead or soda glass  -  what is the extent of wear.           In view of the early C18 craze for cutting, it might be thought that those examples with cut stems and knops were earlier than pieces without any cutting, but that's my opinion only and not based on evidence.
Of course we don't know the origin of Patricia's example.

In Wilkinson (page 86), he shows examples of period 'stirrup glasses' and a very rare 'stirrup decanter'  -  one of the glasses being not too dissimilar to Patricia's  i.e. with plain uncut round stem and semi-ball shaped knop.      His explanation of how these things were presented to guests and how - when the booze was drunk - the glasses were placed back around the butler's tray or whatever, makes very interesting reading.
What you did with the decanter, which is minus a foot, he doesn't say - just have to hope that they drink it all before inverting
His discussion on these pieces is centred around the period 1800 to 1820.

Ref. R. Wilkinson  -  'The Hallmarks of Antique Glass'  -   1968.

[Paul S.]

having got rather carried away with typing....... just realized that Ivo is saying this one is second half C20  -  so my waffle of no help to Patricia.         Now, if anyone has a period coaching/stirrup glass, and they'd like to......................................ugghhhhh

[Ivo]

like this one?

[Paul S.]

uhmmm  - very desireable, and definitely very period - great piece.