Topic: Rummer

[bat20]

I found this today,pretty unloved i would say and i hope i can rescue it! It's 13 cm ht and 8 cm wd with a ground smooth pontil and a cut stem,also weighty with a very long ring to it,any help with id would be great,many thanks..

[Paul S.]

I'd agree with the suggestion of rummer.            If the stem is cut and you have a good ring, then I'm assuming the bowl decoration is cut too, which in my opinion would probably date the glass to around 1840 - 1860 - perhaps a tad earlier.         If the bottom of the inside of the bowl is less than clear, this might indicate the glass has been used for a type of drink called hot toddy - this involved mixing up the drink in a larger glass called a toddy rummer, using rum, brandy or gin, and adding lemon or nutmeg to flavour.            After pouring into individual glasses, sugar was added and this was stirred and crushed with a galass toddy stick  -  this crushing would often cause the inside of the glass to become cloudy.
Had it been served today, they would have prepared it cold .

Probably more correct to call this one a drinking rummer, and these do go back a lot earlier than the date I've mentioned but I'm going on shape and the style of cut decoration when suggesting this period.         It looks a bit too good to be a pub glass, but it might have originated from a similar source.          Pub glasses weren't usually lead glass.

This is a good glass, full of history, and useful addition to the collection.

If Peter (old glassman) is there perhaps he will comment

[bat20]

Thanks Paul very interesting,it has a very long sustain when you flick it and the fluting has irregular spacing ,some touching some not,i have to admit to finding the history part very exciting and it feels like a rescue! it's mindblowing glass that's used survives that period of time with no chips or cracks,funnily enough the inside seems good but sadly the outside seems slightly misty in places,i don't know about cleaning up glass or if it's possible ,but I'll look into it,thanks again..

[Paul S.]

perhaps not used for hot toddy then.           It's usually the insides of glasses that give the problem with discolouration or whatever - perhaps it will be less difficult to clean the outside - at least easier to get to.

[bat20]

 Hello  ,i don't know if this is of any interest to anyone whilst cleaning said rummer,come back nice,i noticed on the rim a very small, you have to angle it right, line of gold,would some of had a gold rim when made? thanks again..

[Paul S.]

some were, although they tended to be the more up-market variety and it was mostly the coloured rummers that were gilded on the rim  -  bristol blue and ruby for example.         Cold gilding was a less expensive method and didn't require the use of a muffle kilm - but apparently it wore off more quickly than the better sort which was fixed by firing.
You may well be correct, but are you sure this isn't an example of surface irridescence (a very slight case of glass sickness) - which can on occasions look a tad like worn gilding.

Gilding on rims of clear British drinking glasses is very rare, but seems to appear on some Scandi and Continental pieces I believe, so this might point to a non-British origin.

Try shoving a magnifying lens between the camera and rim, and see if you can capture this line of gold.  

[bat20]

Naff magnifying glass i'm afraid,you can just see a thin line to the right of the lens,it does look like gold live,hope this comes out..

[Paul S.]

think I can see what you mean.....           From memory, on those very few pieces I've had - which once possessed gilding - since worn away -there remains a noticable matt area where the gilding was  -  as in the attached pic.
Not really sure about your example  -  perhaps others might comment.  

[bat20]

Yup that looks about it Paul,i'm certain this rummer had a gold rim when new,i've only got a cheapo camera i'm afraid,but having a good hard look at it now it's gold alright,thanks again,at some time in the future i'll post a better photo..

[bat20]

Hi all,i have managed to get a better photo of the gilding on this rummer and just wondered if it hardens up any dating ideas people might have or origin.In the book I'm reading I've got to a passage where it states,"permanent gilding was not generally known in GB until about 1800.."