Topic: Webb Bronze Vase - 3.75 inches - Christopher Dresser Attribution - ca 1880 ?

[flying free]

I might be wrong, but I thought the Thomas Webb pattern books were in the Broadfield House museum as they looked something up for me in the pattern books when I was there last year?  Surely if Dresser had designed for Thomas Webb someone would have dug out the proof?

When I do a google search there is mention of a book in the Corning about Antique Glass by Charles Hajdamach that comes up on searches for using both Christopher Dresser and Thomas Webb in a search bar.  However there is no info in my few books or on the web that uses this book as a resource for stating Christopher Dresser designed bronze glass for Thomas Webb.
And so far I have found nothing definitive that uses primary sources from pattern books or original documentation stating this conclusively. 
Of course it may well turn out to be true - but there is no documentary proof as far as I can see.

m

[flying free]

On the site I linked to above ( http://www.christopherdresser.co.uk/articles/Reform_and_Eastern_art/Reform_and_Eastern_art.html) for Christopher Dresser it does state

'Dresser had been invited to serve as a ceramics juror at Philadelphia, in 1876, but declined because of his preparations to visit Japan, however he did serve as a wallpaper juror at Paris in 1878. Clearly the international recognition of both his 'ceramic' and his 'wallpaper' expertise was well established. This was not his only achievement for he noted that:

'Eleven manufacturers engaged in eleven different branches of manufacture showed my designs at the last Paris Exhibition, and ten of these got gold medals and the other silver.' 25.

Amongst the English firms who had produced Dresser designs and who exhibited at Paris were:

'.........
Messrs. Thomas Webb & Sons winners of the Grand Prix, which 'was not awarded for purity of metal only; it was for cutting, and engraving, and designing on crystal glass.'FIG.16 The Art Journal of 1878 noticed that 'Other glass is pure in colour, but the finest British flint glass has a brilliancy that appears nowhere else.' They also exhibited Bronze glass for the first time. FIG.17
.......'

It is a source that states Thomas Webb produced Christopher Dresser designs.
It does not state that he designed the Bronze glass.

m

[bigbri]

They might be I couldn't say I'm not really interested in Webb more dresser and the arts and crafts movement and on design of that piece of glass my instinct says dresser............as said any other thoughts on designer or anyone close would be of interest.

[flying free]

Sorry I don't have any thoughts on who might be another designer. 

I've just checked the Victorian website and under designs for Glass by Christopher Dresser it does not state Thomas Webb and there are no examples of Bronze glass that I could see.
The link is here and the typewritten list of areas he designed for is clickable so one can click on glass and see further information
http://www.victorianweb.org/art/design/dresser/index.html

This is a link to a number of sets of photos of display of Christopher Dresser pieces including on page 3 many in the British Museum display.
I couldn't see any on the three pages that were Webb Bronze Glass - only Couper glass
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bolckow/sets/72157626630545589/detail/
m

[Ivo]

We' re seeing a riift here. if you can prove it is Webb that would be great. You can then say ' possibly by Dresser' . But if the connection cannot be made on paper, then it isn' t there. It doesn't alter the fact that is it a wondrful item of great intest and some value.  It is better not  to skip steps when attributing ;-)

[bigbri]

Can't help myself Ivo,I'm a jumper inner.........
In my opinion it must be by dresser until someone comes up with better.........

[Ivo]

But you may not assume it is what your hunch tells you. Prove it and we' ll all applaude and congratulate you!

[obscurities]

Great discussion here....  and this is exactly the reason I posted this wonderful piece of glass. I have seen it attributed to Dresser, as if it were documented somewhere, but alas it does not (at least so far) appear it is.

I agree with Ivo and M in that it can be "attributed to" or in the "manner of" Dresser based on the design similarities and fairly distinctive design....

But what I am looking for is to see if there is something to remove the doubt as to the designer, to be able to say confidently "This is an example of a Dresser design for Webb from the Bronze line....

As a researcher in my own area of glass, I understand all too well that this may never happen. I also understand that there are ways to make links that may not specifically spell it out, but are solid enough to arrive at a solidly based conclusion as a result of reasonable empirical evidence....

I thank all for the input thus far....

It is a very interesting little object if I do say so!!

Craig

[bigbri]

Tis beautiful!!!