Topic: Bohemian decanter,19th or 20th century ?

[keith]

15.5 inches high,star cut base blown stopper with plenty of wear,opinions please,

[flying free]

I don't know but had I seen it I'd have said 19th century and bought it

It struck me as strange that counting the points on the star, there are 33.  Not an even number.  I assume the cutter did it entirely by hand and eye although I don't know if that's true, but just my assumption and added to me thinking it was older.
I love the colour as well also would have made me think 19th century.
There's something nice about the engraving as well, it looks 3D, pretty.  By the way is it crizzled?  there seems to be some sort of texture on the pink in your photographs?
However, that's all guesswork.  I've no idea if a hollow blown stopper might indicate earlier or later to be honest.

Is it definitely Bohemian?  Sorry decanters aren't my thing so I don't really know how you would be sure - could it not be Belgian or French maybe?  Hopefully someone will come along and tell you a definitive


It's really pretty Keith.  Nice buy especially with the stopper intact.
m

[keith]

Thanks m,not got round to counting the cuts on the base,the crizzle effect is the 'bloom ' on the inside,the neck is quite thin and cleaning it is probably impossible,I thought it may have been late 19th,where,not so sure,as you say French,Belgian ?

[Paul S.]

hi Keith -  attractive bottle            I could be wrong, but to me this appears to be an example of 'flashing' - rather than staining (staining was the cheaper, but less permanent process used by early Islamic decorators and revived by Egermann around 1820 ish)...........  if it is flashing you should be able to see a very thin, but noticeable thickness of ruby, and was popular around the middle third of the C19.         Staining I'd imagine shows the scratches and knocks a lot quicker and easier to see, in the form of missing colour.               
According to McConnell, flashing was a Roman technique, which was revived in Bohemia around the same time that Egermann was starting his revival of staining - so it goes back some way, and apparently not easy to tell the difference between Continental and UK pieces.           Bacchus, apparently, became the best known and leading British maker.               
I'd suggest your decanter is a shape known as 'perpendicular cylinder' with spire stopper  -  a style fairly common in Bohemia and Britain  (the spire stopper seems to have had a long run for its money, and appears not to have been confined to these two countries - so not much use in helping with an accurate date or origin).

I don't get the impression that either France or Belgium are known particularly for either flashing or staining, but apparently some very attractive cased bottles did originate from France during the period in question, and these are very attractively decorated with gilt etc.

I'd suggest this piece is C19, but beyond that wouldn't care to speculate.           My eyesight not good enough to challenge m's counting of the arms of the star, but can say that the 32 point example is indicative, apparently, of 1840 - 50, although as we know, decorative features have been copied ad infinitum and this particular feature may not be proof of authenticity, and I've no idea how universal this rule of dating by number of radial arms, really is.

As regards the 'bloom', you might try putting your balls inside together with some metal polish and shaking vigorously for a while  - might make you feel a little giddy - temporarily - but hopefully should reduce the slight opaqueness  -  not crizzling, by the way, that is something different entirely.

attractive find by the way.

Ref.      'The Decanter - An Illustrated History of Glass from 1650'  -  Andy McConnell  -  Antique Collectors' Club  -  2004.

Regarding the